Remember when I said my next proper entry would be from Doha or HK? I lied ^_^

Oct 30, 2006 21:05

Even though it's a meme I consider this as a proper entry as Mel's questions are quite interesting ^_^
Feel free to ask more random questions btw :o

1)Imagine that you are employed by the court and it is your job to decide whether people are innocent or guilty of a crime. The only tool that you have to help you decide is a very advanced computer. ( Read more... )

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evil_mel October 30 2006, 23:06:17 UTC
Good answers! Maybe I did get No. 1 from Philip K. Dick - will have to ask Christian (official PKD expert) about that!

The problem with the dilemma is that is that this hypothetical machine would never spit out a card that said 100% It would always be 97% or 99.9999999% because there'd always be a chance the suspect was innocent - even if they were caught red-handed and 1000 people claimed to see them do it. I've asked other people this question and I was absolutely horrifed when they said 75% or 50%. It always seemed like the more right-wing always gave lower percentages.

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chi_ryu October 31 2006, 00:07:38 UTC
1%, tbh. But I'm a Nazi, clearly XD

The question sounds very Dickensian (no, not the guy who wrote "Our Mutual Friend"), but it doesn't seem to tally with any PKD I've read. Then again, there is some that I still haven't read, shamefully.

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Immanuel Kant, anyone? bardyspoon October 31 2006, 13:52:38 UTC
That first one is a very good question :o

To me the "rational" answer would probably be "more than 50%", but the sensible answer would be more like (meta-analysis FTW) "A society fucked up enough to come up with such a system to deal with criminality is probably more guilty as whole as any so-called criminals, so I'd give it -556Gs and would say everyone is innocent, whatever the numbers point at. Fuck the system and break the rules. Power to the people and viva la revolution, comrades ( ... )

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Re: Immanuel Kant, anyone? evil_mel October 31 2006, 14:01:52 UTC
thank you!

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Re: Immanuel Kant, anyone? dancingpuppet October 31 2006, 14:22:29 UTC
Yeah it reminded me of Milgram Experiment as well.

I like your answer :D
And I agree, Mel's question was excellent.

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Re: Immanuel Kant, anyone? chi_ryu October 31 2006, 16:28:32 UTC
Also aeminds me of the Milgram Experiment (scary IRL shit, that one O_o)

Interesting. I'd never heard of that one before.
Eye opening.

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Re: Immanuel Kant, anyone? bardyspoon October 31 2006, 18:37:12 UTC
Eye opening
Yeah. And quite upsetting. But not too surprising, either. I'm reminded of several IRL situations I witnessed where totally ordinary (and normally rather decent, when taken individually) people[*] would just act as peer pressure suggested, without quite questioning their actions and/or surrendering their individual responsibility to some higher kind of authority (usually not even an actual person, but rather some unpersonal "group"/"tradition"/"system"/etc. thing)

[*]Me included, actually, I'm afraid. Would act differently now, I think (hope), but that doesn't change anything to the fact I've been part of the easily manipulated, submissive crowds in the past (and occasionally did things I'm not too proud of)

I like to think that if the Milgram Experiment was more well-known, people would not submit to authority so easily :/
That if people knew better, they'd be able to think by themselves... Stupidly idealistic, maybe? :o

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Re: Immanuel Kant, anyone? dancingpuppet November 1 2006, 15:23:08 UTC
Never heard of it before? Weird :o
That's one of my fav psychological experiments evAer tbh <3 (not sure that "<3" is really appropriate but you know what I mean ^^;; )

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"you know what I mean" "I know what came out of your mouth" chi_ryu November 1 2006, 15:26:51 UTC
Yup, never heard of it before. Glad I have now.

Spoiler: there are lots of extremely interesting things (and famous things too) that I've never heard of. I know nothing! Well, very little.

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Re: "you know what I mean" "I know what came out of your mouth" dancingpuppet November 1 2006, 17:21:27 UTC
I know nothing! Well, very little.

And what do you do these days? Nothing? :D

And I just tend to assume everyone has heard of it as I heard of it for the first time like 10 years ago now and have seen it mentioned in zillions of places since then ^_^;;

But now that I think about it I guess Milgram Experiment is only well known in France because of I comme Icare (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/I..._comme_Icare)

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Re: "you know what I mean" "I know what came out of your mouth" bardyspoon November 1 2006, 21:52:22 UTC
Personally I've heard about it through people who saw a documentary on it on Arte

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Re: "you know what I mean" "I know what came out of your mouth" dancingpuppet November 1 2006, 22:16:49 UTC
Dunno what that documentary was but I'm pretty sure they must have shown bits of I comme Icare in it or it must have been shown during a special evening where they also showed that film.
You might not know it but it is a classic that did make this Experiment more famous in France than it would have been otherwise.

Oh and are you sure I didn't tell you about that Experiment first? I thought we discussed it at the time when I first heard about it back when I was in "Seconde"...

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dancingpuppet October 31 2006, 14:30:53 UTC
If it would never spit out a card that said 100% then I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to judge anyone guilty ^_^

I've asked other people this question and I was absolutely horrifed when they said 75% or 50%.
This is horrifying indeed @_@
I could kinda understand people saying something like 90% but I can't understand how anyone could say 50%, right wing or not @_@ (besides proper right wing people would realise that convicting so many people would be expensive as it would mean having to build more prisons and stuff... Unless we decide to just get rid of all convicted people :D)

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evil_mel October 31 2006, 19:42:33 UTC
And can you imagine living in a society where so many innocent people were convicted and locked away? It would be impossible for anyone to feel safe, so how could it ever be best for society and the individuals that are part of it?!

Having said this, I did jury service once and that was very disturbing. One woman wanted to convict a man because he had "a weak chin." (!)

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Almost as good as a Brave New World? dancingpuppet November 1 2006, 15:29:52 UTC
Having said this, I did jury service once and that was very disturbing. One woman wanted to convict a man because he had "a weak chin." (!)

WTF? @_@

People officially scare me D:

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