Religious Identity and Appropriation

[danceswithwaves]

Someone I'm friends with on Facebook just had a bunch of stress dumped on her and her family and posted "Please be praying for us that things will fall into place quickly and smoothly. I praise Hashem for his amazing grace and his son Yeshua (Jesus) for dying on the cross. (I know not everyone believes and that is okay, but the first person that

Comments

[kith_koby]

I completely agree. I cringe whenever I hear non-religious friends using 'El-ohim' rather than Elokim (though this does not extend to 'El' - I'm not bothered by people saying that instead of 'Kel'). But Christians using HaShem? That's horrible. And don't get me started on Messianic Jews. I will never understand that kind of thought process.

But it really does bother me. Because it's the High Holy Days, and we prayed on Rosh HaShana that all the nations of the Earth will know the Lord's glory and worship him. But using our name for him when you're blaspheming against our beliefs is just the opposite of that, in my mind. (At least, at 11 at night when I'm sick during the High Holy Days. Tomorrow morning I might be less vehement about it)

In any case, a good year to us all, and may we be written and sealed in the books of life, memory and forgiveness!

[danceswithwaves]

I actually have almost no problem with Messianic Jews who follow Jewish rituals and holidays and know Hebrew and feel part of Jewish culture and just also happen to believe that Jesus was the messiah. But I have quite a problem with people who call themselves Messianic Jews who are really just Christian and think Jews are really cool. The first I see as a legitimate personal theology, the second brings cultural appropriation to mind.

Feel better!

[kith_koby]

I suppose that kind of Messianic Jew you're talking about is no worse than any other non-believer or heretic... I feel uncomfortable with the idea primarily because it scares me - that there are Jews who are Jewish in every way except one, yet that one way is exactly what makes them heretics, and so Halachically unfit to be part of an Orthodox community. (it actually happened in my community... We're a religious community and new members must live in the community for at least six months, and then voted in by the rest of the community. And we're Modern Orthodox and all, but one a family of Messianic Jews as you describe tried to be accepted into the community, and it was only dumb luck through which we discovered the truth)

[danceswithwaves]

See, that's interesting because I knew someone who was a Messianic Jew in college, and he went to the Chabad house, an Orthodox community, all the time, and many people there knew that he was a Messianic Jew and still welcomed him into the community. He tried going to Hillel, the Conservative community, a few times, but people were a lot more uncomfortable there with the idea of him being a Messianic Jew. So I think it really depends on the individual community. And possibly there's an America/Israel difference going on too

[kith_koby]

Yeah, you probably have the right of it. It seems to be a cultural thing. Here they're seen as less of a public threat, and more of a secret cult who might secretly corrupt people.

[danceswithwaves]

And to be honest, I'm not sure what you're describing when you use the term non-believer, though of course I can come up with hypotheses. And I'm a little uncomfortable with you using the word heretic, though I do understand it. I feel like what makes someone Jewish is the cumulative number of things that are Jewish about them, rather than lining up their beliefs and actions with a specific list of beliefs and actions and seeing if they all match.

Of course, my level of comfortable or uncomfortableness in calling someone Jewish changes depending on what the things are that this person does that makes them Jewish. So I'm not as pluralistic as I would ideally like to be.

[kith_koby]

Non-believer in this case was meant as atheist. I can understand being uncomfortable with the term 'heretic' - I only used it because it's the only one I feel that fits. See, we have innumerable commandments and mitzvahs, all of which we were commanded to do. And obviously, many people do not keep all of them. But those people are still Jewish, and as long as they're trying, even if they're trying for some bare minimum that's more cultural than spiritual, they're still Jews.

But there are some commandments that you cannot ignore. If you don't believe in God, you might still be technically Jewish, but you're certainly not religiously so. And there are a number of other beliefs I feel are needed to be considered religiously Jewish. It's not even so much as a belief - for example, I don't expect every Jew to declare he believes in all 13 of the Rambam's Principles of Faith. But if someone actively contradicts it, that's where I feel s/he's lost his/her religious Jewishness in my eyes.