Comments | dachte: Reversed and Remanded

dachte

Reversed and Remanded

Jul 09, 2011 22:41

One of the ways you can tell you're arguing poorly about an issue is when people who have little opinion on the issue read your argument and hope things go against you just for spite. I confess to the latter with a recent post on Google+ by "Siderea B", a post which has been floating through my social circles. There are quite a lot of these posts ( Read more... )

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bubblingbeebles July 10 2011, 03:30:42 UTC

i'm entertained to imagine "Siderea B" as the name of a star or planet.

what do you think about the current gender option (male/female/other)?

dachte July 10 2011, 03:35:42 UTC

I don't really have an opinion on the gender option. I know that there are many different ways to think about sex and gender, I have my own framework of terms, and I will mainly argue to protect the acceptability of diversity of frameworks than to argue for my particular one. As such, I don't really care a lot when it comes to how third parties (like Google) expose their frameworks (even if vaguely) in the sites they lay out.

That said, I do reject-as-bullshit the concern that some have expressed that the broad use of "other" co-opts a term belonging to people who are "legitimately other" for people who just don't want to disclose. I reject it on the basis that "other" is not an actual identity and has little substantive content.

bubblingbeebles July 10 2011, 03:44:44 UTC

so if somebody said they were "other" you would not infer that it meant explicitly "neither male nor female"?

if i chose "other" to indicate "unspecified", should i trust everybody who sees my profile to refrain from inferring the same?

dachte July 10 2011, 03:46:10 UTC

Why is it any of your business what others decide to infer from it? You don't even know that "other" makes sense in everyone's framework, or if it does, that you'd fit into their notion of "other".

bubblingbeebles July 10 2011, 04:05:04 UTC

Why is it any of your business what others decide to infer from it?

isn't the whole argument here in the first place because i'm worried about what others decide to infer from me putting "male". (as though "other" be less confusing?)

even if it's clear to you and to me what i mean when i say "other", i still lose if i have to explain it to a careless reader ("whoa, are you trans or what??").

You don't even know that "other" makes sense in everyone's framework, or if it does, that you'd fit into their notion of "other".

the only point i read from this is that "other" cannot possibly be a useful/informative choice, let alone be suitable for my particular preference - which i heartily agree with. (my auxiliary complaint has been that "other" should come with an optional text input box.)

dachte July 10 2011, 04:15:22 UTC

But you don't get to tell other people what they can infer. That's their definitional framework. Actually, I don't know what you mean by "other", but I don't really mind that much. Whenever I read other, I either think ( ... )

bubblingbeebles July 10 2011, 04:24:32 UTC

i'm not worried about people not inferring the right definition; i'm worried about people inferring a wrong definition. (in fact, i prefer exactly for people to make no inferences at all, which is why i want to hide the option entirely.) the way you interpret "other" is completely agreeable, but i don't have faith that everybody will be as thoughtful.

dachte July 10 2011, 04:29:10 UTC

I think people will always start out assuming some things, either from your picture or your decision not to say something or whatever. I think it's the same with if you meet someone in person, they'll look at your clothes, posture, diction, scent, etc, and come to some understanding. You can try to shape your identity with them if/after you meet them, but even that's not a sure thing. I don't think "this doesn't give me the tools I want to shape my presentation to others" is really much of a complaint given how varied these goals are.

bubblingbeebles July 10 2011, 04:45:56 UTC

ok; i mean, i never expect this particular setting to have a big impact on perception, but it would still be a small comfort i would enjoy taking. (and, i'm sure there are those less genderly-secure than i am who need all the comfort they can get.)

of course it is not a cure-all for shaping my presentation to others. the rest of the toolbox for that is a work in progress, but all the same, i'd like to have this tool among my inventory, and i see no reason i shouldn't be given it.

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