Star Trek Into Darkness (again)

[daasgrrl]

Note: my history with ST:TOS + unspoilery reactions to first viewing were posted here.

Saw Star Trek Into Darkness for a second time. I wasn't reeeally planning to go again, but the friend I was catching up with had already seen The Hunt (Mads Mikkelsen) and actively wanted to see STID, so it wasn't a great hardship. It did enable me to get a

Comments

[lobelia321]

Loved this. Lapped it up. My take on Kirk hitting Khan -- well, you know what I think of that, *gg*. It's the line in the glass cage -- "Do you want to hit fuck me over and over again?" -- that explained that particular scene to me pretty clearly and propelled me into writing the REAL STORY behind what we see, heh.

But this analysis, to someone who's never seen Wrath of Khan, didn't know who Khan was until she wikipedia'd him in the wake of baffling 'why isn't he played by an Indian' comments (although I had already deduced from the name that Khan must be a sikh but hey, maybe in the future white people can be sikhs, too?) and has no particular passion for the original Star Trek (although, of course, I am in awe, as we all must be, of the ur-slash pairing) -- was insightful and really interesting!!

[daasgrrl]

Hey, glad it was of interest! I did wonder how it must play for people not Trek fans, and it seems the consensus was 'a bit confusing'.

Hmm, I don't think Khan has to be a sikh; Singh is a common Indian name as far as I know. Anyway, I don't think the issue is whether or not a white person can authentically have the surname Khan (it's also been pointed out that Indians are technically Caucasian, and some are very fair, which is also true). It's the basic fact that "non-white" people are already disproportionately rare in Hollywood without giving existing "coded-ethnic" roles to white people? I believe that's really the main objection, and plausibility doesn't really come into it.

[lobelia321]

Singh is primarily a Sikh name because when the Sikh offshoot of Hinduism was founded some centuries ago, the whole premise was that the caste system should be abolished. 'Singh' is a name without caste associations, so it is very popular among Sikhs. See wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singh

I would say the surname is coded 'sikh'. It's a bit like a name like 'Feigenbaum': could be anon-Jewish German name but it's coded 'German Jewish'.

I really must delve into some sort of Bollywood / ST:ID cross-over....!! If Amitabh Bachchan can play a Jew in Great Gatsby...

[daasgrrl]

Yeah, I read that too, and I discovered later he does have a Sikh turban, so that seems pretty clear in the intention, but given it says it was 'widely adopted' by other people, at the time I was (rather pickily) referring to your usage of 'must' rather than 'is probably'. I'm afraid I'm like that.

LOL, I read that as Bollywood/Great Gatsby crossover at first! Now that would be pretty awesome too....

[bironic]

I enjoyed this writeup and agree with your observation about Uhura's body language changing when she changed languages. I take it back, the movie did do something interesting -- cross-cultural communication -- hidden among all the extended action sequences.

Also, it is my recollection that Kirk cried twice over Pike - once at the moment of death, once again in his apartment later.

[daasgrrl]

It was kind of her one shining moment. Well, and helping clobber Kahn, I guess.

Hmmm, I actually can't remember Kirk being back at his apartment at all, which makes me wonder if I'm just forgetful or there was a scene we didn't see... unless that was where he found out that Khan had gone to Kronos?

[veronica_rich]

I've seen it a couple of times, too, and I've mostly loved it. Yes, I know about the casting hooha, yes, I agree about the plotholes you can drive the Dreadnaught Class through, but as an action movie with good characters, I quite enjoyed it. Fortunately, I can put aside my 30 years of Trekkie-ness and just enjoy ... and I have to say a lot of it was watching BC in action. I'm not even a Benedict fan, but in this movie I really liked him. I can't even say why. Even if I sort of agree the casting maybe should have been culturally different for sensitivity.

And yes, Pike is exempt from any criticism EVER. Bruce Greenwood Nails It Again. (Although I have to say he should have made Kirk squirm for longer.)

[daasgrrl]

Well, I'm not going to begrudge you enjoying it, lol, and BC is always a plus in general. Loved that scene with Pike, Kirk and Spock :)

[veronica_rich]

Although, I would have liked BC just as much had he played any similar type of villain, so your point about "John Harrison" is spot on. A colleague or perhaps friend of Khan's might have been a better identity.

(Although, points gotta be given to the Friday-night audience I saw this with. The theater was full, and when he said "My name is Khan," half the audience gasped and one guy went "NO" in surprise. They were hilarious.)

[shadowfireflame]

I’d never thought of the “brown people are terrorists” trope-god, the whole casting issue is so racially charged that every decision comes with its own problems. But yes, everything would have been much better had Khan actually been written well and given more screentime.

A secondary point is that if you just need a white guy to run around blowing up stuff and causing havoc and being very vaguely sympathetic, you might as well use "John Harrison" and forget Khan altogether.

Yes, I would definitely have preferred this route. I was perfectly happy to just go on thinking of him as John Harrison forever.

I think “I surrender” is my favorite line in the movie, too. But I have to re-watch it (either tomorrow or Tuesday) to be sure.

he... can't (resisting the obvious pun here, be grateful) (Thanks, but I’ve been thinking up stupid puns ever since seeing this movie

[daasgrrl]

I'd been spoiled for him being Khan a while back, and yeah, everything would have been fine if they'd just made him a new character. It would perhaps have improved things also by 'forcing' him to have a proper backstory, properly explained.

I didn't really notice the 'I surrender' line the first time, but in a way it's a very human line from Khan, where he's effectively conceding he's not in control, at least for now. But manipulative at the same time *g*

BC and MF are taking over the world, lol. It's amazing to watch. I wonder if seeing it again will change anything about your impressions!

[shadowfireflame]

Reporting back! On my second viewing (in 2D; my first viewing was in IMAX 3D), I enjoyed the movie more, as I was more prepared to accept it as just a fun romp. The action was easier to follow, the jokes were still amusing (except Bones; he was less funny the second time around), and the plot seemed more coherent. Still good fun.

Also, that scene in which Benedict sets course for Starfleet and then has to confirm the coordinates--damn, the way he says Confirm is basically the hottest thing ever. My eyes rolled back a little. :)

[daasgrrl]

I saw it in 2D the second time and enjoyed that more, too - I felt like I could 'see' better for some reason, and I also agree with being able to follow the plot a bit better - it was awfully fast the first time around.

LOL, can't argue, but let's face it, he could read his lunch order... "a ham SANDwich please. On WHITE." XD

[emmagrant01]

This is so, so on point. Thank you.