Nine, ten, a big fat hen.

[mrv3000]

Here's a "what if" question for you. Ignoring for a minute that external forces are involved (that Doctor Who is written by people who probably would have written things the same no matter what), how would S2 be different if Nine never regenerated? How about if we had seen Ten already in S1

Comments

[_thirty2flavors]

Imagining s2 with Nine breaks my brain -- I think their relationship would've progressed a bit, but I don't think they would've progressed to the same weird honeymoon stage Ten and Rose are in simply because I can't really see Nine doing those things. She and Nine interact differently than she and Ten do.

However I do think if Nine had been around for Doomsday he'd either've fallen into the Void after her or torn open the universe to get her back right away, lol. I think he'd've coped worse than Ten did, which is saying something, really.

Ten in s1 wouldn't really be... Ten, I don't know; immediately post-Time War Ten would be more like the Ten you get in s3 or the specials, rather than the Ten we get in s2. I'm not sure how that would've worked with bb s1Rose. It's hard to imagine because so much of s3Ten's angst is wrapped up in his relationship with Rose.

[sherrilina]

See, I don't think 9/Rose's dynamic is nec as different from 10/Rose as people think, I mean you see scenes of Nine and Rose knocked down on the TARDIS floor laughing like idiots, and them having moments of geeky excitement (like in beg of 1x03 and when she gets the planet name right), and hugging and holding hands all the time and worrying about her/going scary when she's in danger, just like with 10/Rose, etc.

Part of it is just that with Nine/Rose they're still in initial stages of getting to know one another. Ten and Rose wouldn't interact in such a honeymoon way if not for what had come before....and as for Time War Traumatized Ten, I imagine he'd be more like the Ten crying over the Master's body or in WoM, yeah....

[stillbrainfried]

I completely agree. Most people tend to forget how incredibly funny Nine could be.

There would have been a slightly different dynamic, true, but I don't think that would necessarily have been a bad thing. Sometimes the entire honeymoon atmosphere was a bit too much, if you ask me (and I love Doctor/Rose dearly).

[_thirty2flavors]

It's not that I think Nine/Rose were srs bsnss all the time, I just think they were very much... Not There Yet and it's hard for me to imagine them getting there. To me there feels like a much bigger difference in power levels between the two of them -- the Doctor feels more like an authority figure, which makes the age gap and experience gap feel more pronounced, and they both test each other and emotionally manipulate each other while they're trying to sort out how they feel. I guess maybe if he hadn't regenerated at the end of s1 some of those issues might have changed anyway, but it's hard for me to imagine since Nine's regeneration into Ten took care of so many of those things all at once. He was a bit bouncier, a bit younger, fonder of her family and (in s2 at least) more heart-on-his-sleeve open.

I think you absolutely need Nine/Rose to get to Ten/Rose. But I have a hard time imagining Nine/Rose left alone turning into a similar dynamic to what we got from Ten/Rose.

[sherrilina]

Oh I think that it would have all been very different, impossible in the case of Ten, since it's clear that he followed from what had happened to Nine, and had had the chance to work through some of his Time War angst (at first at least).

I do wish we had gotten to see a little more Nine/Rose, since I do love 9 and their dynamic so much, and it would be interesting to see where their dynamic would have gone after that epic kiss and Rose returning for him like that, but I can't imagine it, and think what happened was for the best....

[tripocket]

I think Nine would have looked more like Waters of Mars Ten at Doomsday. As for Ten being there from the beginning, I don't think they would have ever gotten as far as they did if it was Ten that said "Nice to me ya Rose. Now run for your life!"

[_thirty2flavors]

lol ia, I don't think Nine would have dealt with it at alllll. I mean, Ten didn't really either, but I think Nine's options would've been either falling into the Void with her or ripping open reality to go fetch her.

[tripocket]

Exactly. I sometimes feel Nine was just looking for a reason to unleash but was able to pull it together. Maybe that was because of Rose or maybe he was still a tad numb from everything. The funny thing is if I put Nine in the Waters of Mars episode I don't see him going all Time Lord Victorious. I see him walking away just a little bit more numb.

[shionthekid]

It really is difficult to conceive of Ten in Nine's place; he was, most admit, created at least based on Rose (accent, youth, cuteness), if not for her. He wouldn't be, couldn't be Nine. The dichotomy is too stark between them, at least in the beginning.

As to whether Nine would behave differently than Ten with and after Rose, I agree with _thirty2flavors, in that he'd be perhaps even more suicidal around The Runaway Bride than Ten was. Nine needed her even more than Ten thought he did. I mean, in season one, I think he tried to sacrifice himself maybe three times or more; without her, I'm not sure even the all-powerful, all-awesome Donna could save him once he decided this was it.

[kilodalton]

Hmm if Nine had stayed for s2 .... Well, personally, I see a lot more of Nine being into Rose than vice-versa, so it is hard for me to do anything more than friend!ship them. And while Ten runs hot and cold on Rose throughout much of s2, the overall vibe of their relationship is one of mutual attraction, which I feel is missing from s1. So, I think s2 would have had a very different feel to it, as I'm not sure that the intensity of Rose's devotion to the Doctor would have been as obvious. And since that drives a lot of the s2 scripts ... yeah, hard for me to picture Nine in there