Time to post something not awkward and shallow for once
So I was talking to my friend Amanda last week about the The Bechdel Test. Apparently a romantic comedy she's put up for critique in writer's group got a lot of prodding to add a bedchel type scene (with two female characters not talking about men.)
This really bothered her and I mostly agreed (I think it's something to look out for in writing, to try and insert if you can because as a culture we're not always trained to think of those scenes but should not be an out and out rule). Basically I think she's saying that she resents the implication that a heterosexual relationship makes someone a bad feminist and I have to say, I agree on that poiny. She told me she'd write something up with her points for me to post on my journal since I said I had "smart feminists" who read it. ;)
Used my only icon to pass the Bechdel test, btw.
"Jaz-
So you’ve read that article about in order to be feminist a movie has to have a scene where two female characters need to have a conversation about something other than boys? Well, I got in an argument with my writers’ group about it because…
1) I thought the rule was “they can’t talk about men” but it’s apparently just boyfriends/boys of interest. So two girls can talk about their dads. Makes it seem like being in a relationship means you’re not a feminist.
2) Sometimes, in a screenplay, it doesn’t make sense to have this scene. Each scene is to further the plot. If the plot is girl meets guy, girl falls for guy, girl gets guy, she has to talk about the guy. To put in a scene where she’s at work or where she’s discussing asian art with a female friend seems forced. If a scene with two girls discussing something other than boys doesn’t naturally develop, why write one just because an article claims it makes a movie more feminist.
3)When I asked if a scene is feminist if two lesbians talk about their girlfriends, a girl claimed it was a step in the right direction. Which implies lesbians are naturally more feminist that straight girls. It also implies to me that sexuality is a choice. As if I would be a lesbian, if I was a true feminist.
4) Also, it diminishes any relationship a woman has with a man that might be healthy, where they are equals, etc. Being feminist doesn’t mean you don’t need men at all.
I guess my overall point is that a film shouldn’t be judge based one article.
It's made me think a little bit, I'll say that. I have to say that ever since I heard about the bechdel test I felt a little bit guilty about my own work. I'm quite aware that I tend to pick male protagonists out of some sense of sublimation but looking at it, that would mean that out of the four plays I've had produced in the past six years (Ships, Orion, Sweet Prince and Bromance) only one (Ships) passes the test. Which is kind of odd because a)Jane is a very passive character and one I would only consider mildly feminist and b)Jane and Chloe talk about other things besides men but largely because Chloe is in love with Jane. In terms of the other three, Frannie from Bromance is probably the only character who would definitely classify herself as a feminist and is probably the worst feminist role model I've ever written (though I think she's growing, she is only 17), Consequently Ari from Orion is probably the best female role model but I don't think she's ever really related to another woman (or, really to anyone who isn't her brother or boyfriend) on any level in her life. Neither Janet nor Sarai from Sweet Prince are meant to be role models in the slightest (though Marissa kind of kicks ass) but I might actually hesitantly say it's my most feminist play, if only because I think it deals with feminist issues.
If I add the other works I've worked on the past few years (that no one here has probably read because they aren't great) I'd say my Princess/Witch story passes though probably not as well as it should cause it's all love triangle-y with a girl/guy/girl setup, Elijah,Fox and the Incredible Search for Stephen (lol my titles) fails but really probably shouldn't because it's all about gender equality and the only one of my mini-plays that I tried to write in april that would pass in the one with scenes between a mother and daughter...but I wouldn't call either of them particularly feminist people.
Don't know why this became all about my writing but whatever. At the very least it should inspire me to actually write today.
This really bothered her and I mostly agreed (I think it's something to look out for in writing, to try and insert if you can because as a culture we're not always trained to think of those scenes but should not be an out and out rule). Basically I think she's saying that she resents the implication that a heterosexual relationship makes someone a bad feminist and I have to say, I agree on that poiny. She told me she'd write something up with her points for me to post on my journal since I said I had "smart feminists" who read it. ;)
Used my only icon to pass the Bechdel test, btw.
"Jaz-
So you’ve read that article about in order to be feminist a movie has to have a scene where two female characters need to have a conversation about something other than boys? Well, I got in an argument with my writers’ group about it because…
1) I thought the rule was “they can’t talk about men” but it’s apparently just boyfriends/boys of interest. So two girls can talk about their dads. Makes it seem like being in a relationship means you’re not a feminist.
2) Sometimes, in a screenplay, it doesn’t make sense to have this scene. Each scene is to further the plot. If the plot is girl meets guy, girl falls for guy, girl gets guy, she has to talk about the guy. To put in a scene where she’s at work or where she’s discussing asian art with a female friend seems forced. If a scene with two girls discussing something other than boys doesn’t naturally develop, why write one just because an article claims it makes a movie more feminist.
3)When I asked if a scene is feminist if two lesbians talk about their girlfriends, a girl claimed it was a step in the right direction. Which implies lesbians are naturally more feminist that straight girls. It also implies to me that sexuality is a choice. As if I would be a lesbian, if I was a true feminist.
4) Also, it diminishes any relationship a woman has with a man that might be healthy, where they are equals, etc. Being feminist doesn’t mean you don’t need men at all.
I guess my overall point is that a film shouldn’t be judge based one article.
It's made me think a little bit, I'll say that. I have to say that ever since I heard about the bechdel test I felt a little bit guilty about my own work. I'm quite aware that I tend to pick male protagonists out of some sense of sublimation but looking at it, that would mean that out of the four plays I've had produced in the past six years (Ships, Orion, Sweet Prince and Bromance) only one (Ships) passes the test. Which is kind of odd because a)Jane is a very passive character and one I would only consider mildly feminist and b)Jane and Chloe talk about other things besides men but largely because Chloe is in love with Jane. In terms of the other three, Frannie from Bromance is probably the only character who would definitely classify herself as a feminist and is probably the worst feminist role model I've ever written (though I think she's growing, she is only 17), Consequently Ari from Orion is probably the best female role model but I don't think she's ever really related to another woman (or, really to anyone who isn't her brother or boyfriend) on any level in her life. Neither Janet nor Sarai from Sweet Prince are meant to be role models in the slightest (though Marissa kind of kicks ass) but I might actually hesitantly say it's my most feminist play, if only because I think it deals with feminist issues.
If I add the other works I've worked on the past few years (that no one here has probably read because they aren't great) I'd say my Princess/Witch story passes though probably not as well as it should cause it's all love triangle-y with a girl/guy/girl setup, Elijah,Fox and the Incredible Search for Stephen (lol my titles) fails but really probably shouldn't because it's all about gender equality and the only one of my mini-plays that I tried to write in april that would pass in the one with scenes between a mother and daughter...but I wouldn't call either of them particularly feminist people.
Don't know why this became all about my writing but whatever. At the very least it should inspire me to actually write today.