Thoughts on Fangirl
At first this was going to be a comment on ikel89's readthrough, but then, uh .... *waves downward* that happened. So it gets its own post. :D I may figure this LJ thing out yet ...
On the whole I quite enjoyed this book! It was a nice, breezy read; most of the drama was not of the "unnecessary bullshit" variety, the characters themselves were mostly fun ( Read more... )
the summary of every discussion ever xD <3
I did find that the closer I thought about it when trying to pull together these bullet points, the less impressed I was by some of the author's narrative choices
*nods* I know what you mean, except in my case the distance between the breezy read and raised eyebrow was shorter, probably, as I already went into Fangirl with a clear bias towards Carry On :') This is not CP-levels of disappointment, as there hasn't been anything bigger than "whee breezy read and a context to another book I liked" going on, but yes. The scepticism for arcs concerning Wren, Nick, ending - all there and growing.
I leave the anxiety consistency discussion with a seaweed gestures, as I really don't understand firsthand how it works. But it did seem weird to me how easily she dropped by Starbucks when cafeteria was such a terrible chore. Maybe it's some social pecking order thing I don't understand? Cafeteria more important for reasons of being a campus space? And Starbucks is more anonymous?.. (in the same campus space...)
WHO REACHES COLLEGE WITHOUT REALIZING IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO TURN FANFIC IN FOR A CLASS ASSIGNMENT *howls in anguish*
still amused by your despair at that but yes :')
I heartily (geddit?:DD) approve of your ot3 scenario! I could totally buy it! :D
I thought you'd have things to say on Carry on the fic based on your own experience, and huh, interesting re: interaction similarities. Maybe it's the age thing? On the author's part?
Prof Piper was as likable as you could expect an adult in charge of Creative Writing who wrote about rural Nebraska (or whatever she wrote about) to be, tbh. But one more thing that made me raise eyebrows was her attitude for Nick - it seemed very inconsistent. Hire-fire-face dilemmas-wut? It seemed to me she just preferred Cath - unless, of course, there were earlier conversations where Nick proved to be an utter jerk who didn't listen to reason. (A bit like he bulldozed his way through conversation with Cath about submitting their coauthored story). But that would have required more coverage of this arc, which we didn't get.
Cath-Levi makeouts were mildly interesting, because I liked the all hands-all mouth thing going on, and Levi was so charming about everything!
DO YOU KNOW HOW IMPORTANT DEADLINES ARE. ESPECIALLY SELF-IMPOSED ONES. DO YOU.
:D :D :D :') :') :')
LOL at HP5 trauma, but agreed re:disappointment at not getting any information about either her fic's resolution or the book's. Open ending mostly worked to drive home the point of how it wasn't really important, to my understanding.
*nods* to alternative Nick arc suggestion, but we've talked about that, so this nod is for posterity :D
(READ CARRY ON!!)
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*nods* That's about where I am as well. Though to be fair, even my quibbles I don't think it messed up nearly as badly as CP3. :D
But it did seem weird to me how easily she dropped by Starbucks when cafeteria was such a terrible chore.
Well, this is all speculation based on my own personal experience, which means I feel like I ought to make a handwavy "never officially diagnosed, etc." disclaimer, but what really clicked for me was her describing the cafeteria thing as a block.
Like, sometimes when I get in really bad spots (which hasn't been in a while, thankfully), I'll get kind of ... locked in? To a pattern that I logically know doesn't make much sense, but I get SO TWITCHY even thinking about breaking it that sometimes it feels like it makes more sense to continue with the pattern than to make myself break it and suffer through the attendant OMG BUT WHAT IFFFFF storm until my anxiety readjusts to the new normal and calms back down.
I mean, I'm also stubborn as hell, so if I catch myself in a pattern that I think is ragingly dumb (like, say, eating protein bars because I'm afraid of the cafeteria), my usual response is to be like FUCK YOU ANXIETY UR NOT THE BOSS OF ME, but I can still understand the urge.
(The other thing that resonated with me is her observation that the longer she's stuck to a pattern, the harder it is to break out of.)
So come to think of it, I think I'd have been completely on board with the characterization of the protein bar thing if she'd done more negative self-talk on the page? Like "I know this is dumb and unhealthy, but one more day won't hurt too much, and I'll totally go to the cafe tomorrow" or something.
And all of the above is also why the Starbucks / English building thing just really stuck out to me.
Especially that spot behind the English building. Especially since I think it was only a few pages after her thinking to herself about how she'd fallen into a very specific pattern of going to class + student union + dorm and that was it. Which sounded an awful lot like another anxiety pattern to me.
And you ... you don't get to have a settled anxiety pattern and then break it by randomly deciding to hang out somewhere unless (a) you manage to trick the pattern into accepting it or (b) you bulldoze through with FUCK YOU ANXIETY UR NOT THE BOSS OF ME, and from what I recall we didn't really see either of those options, she was just like ... "oh yeah, and there's this nice spot I found because I was randomly wandering around the building". -_-
Starbucks, I was more on the fence about, since that was late enough in the semester and things were in a good enough spot in general that I could see her having ... eased up on the anxiety somewhat? And also, yeah, the anonymity could have been a factor, too - I was less concerned with the Starbucks itself than the "oh I'll just wander around Lincoln for fun" excuse for the scene itself. I can come up with excuses (like, going home was already enough of a break in the pattern that, combined with the eased-up anxiety, made it not seem like as big a deal as it always had before?) but I'd still like to have seen more of the explicit negotiation process on the page.
... I mean, since we get to see so much of the rest of her internal monologue anyway. :D
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I think if she "grew up" fandom-wise in the ff.net era (or pre-internet), that could definitely help explain the lack of close fandom friends - especially if she was similarly twitchy about the internet being full of Axe Murderers Who Will Steal Your Credit Cards or whatever XD
... Though now I'm really wondering about that European beta who was mentioned, like, twice ......
But one more thing that made me raise eyebrows was her attitude for Nick - it seemed very inconsistent.
YES! Thank you for reminding me. That was the other thing that bugged me about the situation with Nick. (I think we discussed this yesterday? idk)
If she was aware enough of Cath's contribution to Nick's story to ask her about it at the beginning of the story, WHY MAKE HIM HER TA? Especially if she had no compunction about firing him later for ??? something she had strong suspicions about already ????
And, like, doesn't she have any students in higher level classes to be her TAs? Why was Nick even an option? idk
Her preference for Cath does smell somewhat of Protagonist-Centered Universe, but I also kind of got the impression that she was that sort of ... warm and shiny at all of her students? Or at least the ones she thought had potential? So her bending over backwards for Cath didn't stick out to me too much.
But yeah, agreed that this arc would have needed more coverage in order to clarify ... basically everything. :P
Levi was so charming about everything!
OK, I can definitely agree with that. :D best part of every scene he was in tbh. Except the scenes that also had Reagan in them. :DD
Open ending mostly worked to drive home the point of how it wasn't really important, to my understanding.
BUT IT ISSSSSS THOOOOOOO. :'D
(READ CARRY ON!!)
:D :D :D
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I think the difference with Cath would be, she's always had an external stimulus (Wren) to be that voice that both understands her and will bossily get her to do/not do stuff. So it makes sense to me that she could get to the point of college without knowing how to do this herself (and in effect Reagan kind of takes over the Wren role there at first, which also makes sense).
But this still leaves open the primary question of inconsistency about her anxiety.
WHY MAKE HIM HER TA? Especially if she had no compunction about firing him later for ??? something she had strong suspicions about already ????
I was confused by the TA mentions, but the handwavy explanation I gave myself is that Piper must have known Nick from a previous (lower div) class, probably the one he was TAing for right now after doing well in it (why she'd have an undergrad TAing rather than a grad student I'm not really sure, but I have been an undergard TA in a uni class (where there was no specific grad program in that particular thing, though), and have been approached to TA for an English class as an undergrad, so I guess it happens? Probably undergrads can be paid less than grad students is why... \reality-driven considerations)
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But this still leaves open the primary question of inconsistency about her anxiety.
*nods* At this point I'm not sure we'll reach a more satisfying answer than "because the plot said so". :P Though your point below about strangers being less "scary" sometimes than people you see regularly is also a good one. (It's difficult for me to parse how much of Cath's initial state was "fear of strangers" vs "fear of currently-strangers who will still be around after I RUIN EVERYTHING", but I'd be willing to buy it being more the latter.)
the handwavy explanation I gave myself is that Piper must have known Nick from a previous (lower div) class
Ohhhhh good point. Haha despite the "wait, you're a freshman?" commentary, it had somehow completely passed me by that he was probably at least a junior. :') I'd be willing to buy that explanation - it also means she'd be more familiar with Nick's writing style, and thus that Cath's modifications to it would have been even more noticeable.
I have been an undergrad TA in a uni class
So have I, actually! And in my case, it was actually pretty much exactly this (proposed) situation - the prof got a couple of previous students of the class to TA the current year. (... Just, comp sci instead of English. :D)
\reality-driven considerations
Ewwwww, who dripped this reality on my shiny YA? :'D
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I think the was pretty true for me, also. Although the external stimulus thing I do understand pretty well; while I do not subsist on protein bars left to my own devices, I definitely benefit from having someone around me who will act as the "engine", as Wren does for Cath before all this started.
"fear of currently-strangers who will still be around after I RUIN EVERYTHING",
LOL, that's a perfect way of summarizing the way in which random passing-through strangers are different from the kind you meet when you start college.
Personally, I find situations like new class / party where I don't know most people much more stressful than either gatherings where I do already know most people or gatherings of people I'm never likely to see again (jury duty, plane full of strangers, etc.), because my brain does this complicated take in data on new person(s) - analyze data - determine optimum way to behave with new person(s), which is exhausting when there are multiple new people to analyze and optimize for. But with passing-through strangers it doesn't matter if I get it "right", since I will never see them again, so those functions just turn off, I guess, or work on a lower setting or something. I have no idea if other people's brains, let alone Cath's, work in a similar way, but that's why the "fear of currently-strangers who will still be around after I RUIN EVERYTHING" made sense to me for her.
it also means she'd be more familiar with Nick's writing style, and thus that Cath's modifications to it would have been even more noticeable.
Oh, good point! That would definitely make sense, since Nick and Cath had been writing together from the start in that class.
Just, comp sci instead of English. :D
Oh, you're a comp sci person? cool! :) I was TA'ing for a technical writing class that I'd taken the year before, but I can't remember if the prof approached me or I him. I'd kind of been hanging out in his office for awhile at that point; he was all alone in the wilds of the College of Chemistry and didn't get to talk much about literature, and I needed someone to complain to about my pretentious English Lit TAs and classmates (I was doing an engineering major with a minor in Renaissance Lit -- so that line of Cath's, when she's thinking about changing her major, really cracked me up.)
Ewwwww, who dripped this reality on my shiny YA? :'D
*snerk*
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Oh, it's definitely not just you and Cath. :D
Parties are interesting, though ... Once they hit a certain size (I'm thinking things like large-scale office Christmas parties), they tend to get filed in my stress levels under the "group of strangers I'll never see again" setting.
Still exhausting, but I think more just I find aimlessly milling around and half-heartedly attempting to talk to people I don't know well about small-talk level subjects to be exhausting. :D
Oh, you're a comp sci person? cool! :)
Weeeeelll technically I got my degree in electrical engineering with a computer engineering focus. :D (I like to call it "the path that let me skip out on a bunch of CS theory courses I didn't care about" ;) )
he was all alone in the wilds of the College of Chemistry and didn't get to talk much about literature, and I needed someone to complain to about my pretentious English Lit TAs and classmates
Sounds like an excellent basis for friendship! :DDD
In my case, I'm guessing the prof approached me based on the fact that I was basically allergic to asking professors for anything for most of my college career. :P Who knows, though, it might have been the result of one of my handful of determined attempts to Change Myself And Become More Outgoing. :')
What sort of engineering? And what does the Renaissance lit minor entail? (I mostly avoided humanities courses in college, a decision that these days I vaguely regret, given how interesting I find both discussing books and history-as-taught-by-Tumblr-and-Wikipedia :D)
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Hmm, that might actually be true for me, too. I do think I find them less stressful, possibly because I assume people are less likely to be paying attention to me when there are so many other people around...
I got my degree in electrical engineering with a computer engineering focus. :D (I like to call it "the path that let me skip out on a bunch of CS theory courses I didn't care about" ;)
Gotcha! Mind if I ask where? (though totally cool if you'd rather not mention in an unlocked post / answer a nosy stranger :) I'm curious because a lot of my friends went the EECS/COEN route, especially as we went to school next door to Silicon Valley. I mostly have no regrets about NOT choosing that path, even though it turned out I really enjoy the little bit of coding I've had to do in the course of my other classes (not electrical engineering, though. The less of that the better! :P -- sorry! my dad's an electrical engineer, but I was very clear on that being NOT a thing I ever wanted to do) but it would definitely offer possibilities for shortening my commute if I had... :P
What sort of engineering? And what does the Renaissance lit minor entail?
Chemical Engineering (which I picked basically on the logic of "hey, I really liked chemistry in AP Chem" + "engineering sounds more practical?" and ended up loving a whole lot even though it's actually not all that much like chemistry... or other kinds of engineering.
I had these lofty plans to double-major in ChemE and English, and got two required lower div classes into an English Major before I realized that in order to complete the major I'd have to 1) take the end of the lower div sequence which was 20th century lit and that sounded UNBELIEVABLY tedious and 2) take a junior and senior seminar which was code for "courses on some professor's pet topic" and 3) I'd have to take them with actual English majors, who were driving me increasingly nuts with their pretentiousness. So I bailed on the major and just kept taking classes that actually interested me -- Folklore as Literature, Medieval Lit, Milton, Metaphysical Poets (because the Milton prof was teaching that class and he was AMAZING), and at the beginning of senior year I looked at my English credits and realized that I was one class short of an English minor, and my concentration matched Renaissance Lit closest (at my school it was a concentrtion within the English department, rather than its own thing), so all I had to do was take one class specifically tailored to Renaissance Lit and I could get my minor, so I did.
Cath's "sonnets and Christ imagery" crack is actually pretty spot on :P Between Milton and, like, John Donne, there is A LOT of Christ imagery. Also sonnets... But it's actually a very neat period -- lots of inventiveness and crazy stuff about parts of the world the Europeans were still getting to know.
BTW, I realized at some point along the way that you were the person who introduced ikel89 to Watchmaker of Filigree Strett, which I've finally gotten around to reading after K's rec, and if you're interested, my very long post on that is here.
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*nods* This is likely part of it for me, too. (I keep thinking I'm mostly over my shyness in front of crowds, but then whenever I actually have to speak in front of people I spontaneously combust sooo ... :D)
Gotcha! Mind if I ask where? (though totally cool if you'd rather not mention in an unlocked post / answer a nosy stranger :)
Haha, in deference to the part of me that still remembers being a wide-eyed teen afraid of Posting Public Stuff On The Internets, I'll just say that it was a smallish private uni in Texas. :)
I do have several friends who went to uni in the Bay Area, and it's always seemed like a nice place the times I've visited. :)
sorry! my dad's an electrical engineer, but I was very clear on that being NOT a thing I ever wanted to do
Hahaha, tbh I like coding a LOT more than more "typical" EE jobs, too. :)
In my case I initially wanted to go into physics, but my dad sat me down and pointed out that he'd gotten his degrees in physics, and the two real routes for that were academia (which I was pretty sure I didn't want to do) and being an engineer. So I might as well start out in engineering.
Turns out I make a much happier engineer than pure scientist, anyway, so I'm quite glad to have taken that advice. :D
Chemical Engineering (which I picked basically on the logic of "hey, I really liked chemistry in AP Chem" + "engineering sounds more practical?" and ended up loving a whole lot even though it's actually not all that much like chemistry... or other kinds of engineering.
Hahaha I was actually considering going into ChemE, too! (For ... I think pretty similar reasons. -_-)
I ended up taking the intro EE and ChemE classes in the same semester. EE kicked my ass, ChemE was insultingly easy (we spent basically the entire semester discussing how what goes INTO a system must also come OUT), so I ... am a masochist, apparently? -_- I assume ChemE gets more interesting eventually. :D
just kept taking classes that actually interested me
I do mildly regret not doing more of that, instead of overloading myself with pretty much all tech classes, all the time. OTOH, I was also busy being pretentious about having a REAL major that would get me a REAL job when I graduated, so perhaps it was for the best. :'D
Thanks for the pointer to your Watchmaker post! I enjoyed reading it. :) Might even wander over and comment one of these days ... :')
Short form:
- Your comments on Grace were interesting and I will need to think about them more
- Your comments on everything else were also interesting and I will need to think about them more too (your exchange with A also has some fun food for thought in it <3)
- Katsu <3333
- I've only read Soulless by Carringer, and was not a fan. But I think that was because it seemed to be going for Regency but didn't ... quite ... hit the tone I expected for Regencies. *shrug emoji* (+ not being deeply into paranormal romance) I've heard E&E is better, but haven't gotten around to giving it a try yet. :)
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It's very odd, but I was cripplingly shy for a couple of years as a child -- like, it was a tremendous effort of will to ask someone what time it was, or how much the carrots were at a store. I still hate asking for directions or otherwise asking strangers for stuff, although I absolutely don't mind just chatting with strangers. But speaking in front of crowds never bothered me, which is really odd. My brain seems to process it as a different thing entirely, a less unpleasant one. Not the same thing, but my daughter hates performing alone in front of a crowd -- choir is fine, but solos are not, and she doesn't like the idea of doing drama -- but has no problem with public speaking -- she does debate and enjoys school presentations and being a volunteer at the zoo who has to talk/present to people. I would think performance would be easier, because you don't have to come up with your own words? But apparently not for her... Or maybe the coming up with words occuppies enough of her brain that she doesn't fret about being the center of attention... Brains are weird, basically.
Thank you for indulging my random curiosity! :))
(Bay Area is lovely, except for the insane house prices and the traffic. But, well, both are a sign that people want to live here, so I guess it's silly to complain.)
I loved physics as well, and for a while dithered over whether I should do something with that, but the applied side of chemistry seemed more interesting than the applied side of physics -- I didn't like E&M in school so knew I didn't want to do EE, and it seemed like I should have some actual mechanical aptitude for MechE, which I definitely don't have. And I was pretty sure I didn't want to stay in academia, which was confirmed in spates once I got to the college level. I was very happy to jump off after my B.S.
ChemE was insultingly easy (we spent basically the entire semester discussing how what goes INTO a system must also come OUT)[...] -_- I assume ChemE gets more interesting eventually. :D
Ahaha, yeah, the intro to ChemE class is basically a semester of doing nothing but mass balances. It does get more interesting, or at least harder, after that. I really loved Kinetics, and there are some hairy heat and mass transfer and thermodynamics problems. Really, the thing that appealed to me about ChemE was this idea of building processes block by block. Our introductory class emphasized that aspect, as well as doing some "return on investment" game scenarios (you know, you can buy raw materials and equipment to produce chemical A and sell it, with the price of chemical A fluctuating according to supply and demand in the microcosm of the class, and the goal is to optimize your profits). The prof teaching the intro class was really great, and he used materials from a book he was writing rather than anything already on the market, which might've made a difference. A lot of the students in the class were very "WTF is this, where's the chemistry??", but I really liked it.
I flirted with Materials Science for a while in college, courtesy of a really cool professor teaching the mandatory-for-all-engineers intro class, but then I took another MatSci class and it was like ChemE only far more boring, and I realized that the MatSci department had chosen their best prof to teach the mandatory class as a kind of gateway drug. Quite a few of my peers did end up getting 'suckered' into a MatSci minor or double major thanks to him :P
OTOH, I was also busy being pretentious about having a REAL major that would get me a REAL job when I graduated, so perhaps it was for the best. :'D
Haha! But no, you missed out on an opportunity to be pretentious twice over, which is what I was busy doing: I could be smug about having a REAL major with a REAL job with the people in my humanities classes, and be pretentious about taking Medieval Lit and metaphysical poetry, unlike the culturally illiterate nerds in my STEM classes ;D
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I've read the first... three, I think? Alexia books, and I'm not really a fan -- it's one of those series I do keep reading periodically even though it annoys me more than it entertains me. I think one of my biggest problems with it is Alexia's informed ability, where she's supposed to be this brilliant woman, but she keeps being Totally Oblivious! and making really stupid mistakes. And also the "not like other girls" flavor, where Alexia's mother and sisters are awful and silly, and her friend Ivy is useless and silly.
But E&E series is a lot better in this regard -- I actually believe in the friendship between Sophronia and the girls she's going to school with. It's also more properly steampunky, I think? That's not necessarily a draw for me, because I am indifferent to steampunk, but it feels a bit more consistent.
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