A speculative tid-bit about the next Pope, which might interest all y'all (because I know you're all handicapping the prospects and planning your trip to Las Vegas to bet on this
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It seems funny to think of aged cardinals jostling for positionfufachewJanuary 5 2005, 21:59:11 UTC
Then again, maybe religious folks dont jostle. This guy sounds interested in saying his piece, and that is good. And I can understand his writings - they are not all couched in flowery words or bizarre ideas that only the learned will understand.
Oh, and I wanted to see if my post has my picture and stuff on it since I just registered.
Re: It seems funny to think of aged cardinals jostling for positiondrdeletoJanuary 5 2005, 22:25:03 UTC
Vatican politics have got to be a weird thing... maybe more weird now than they were in the heyday of Vatican politics, the Renaissance. At least then it was largely an extension of secular politics ("Now that we run the Council of Florence, we should think about getting our brother Malvolio into the papal seat..."). At least, that's my impression from playing the computer game version of Machiavelli's The Prince (later rereleased as Merchant Prince II).
Imagine, also, trying to make political decisions while entertaining the intercession of divine power! One of the articles I saw on Ratzinger quoted him as saying that the move to elect a non-Italian Pope came when they elected Pope John Paul I (an Italian)... and he died six months later. That's a tough rebuke. Hence, the Polish JPII--the first non-Italian pontiff since the 16th Century, I think.
Re: It seems funny to think of aged cardinals jostling for positionfufachewJanuary 6 2005, 18:17:13 UTC
Chris, you bring up an interesting question. Does the church believe that God works directly and purposefully in old testament style upon earth? Was Pope JP1 stricken by a displeased and angry God, sending a clear message to the Church to knock it off with the Italian only thing? At least, does the Church see it that way? I was always under the impression of a "works in mysterious ways" kind a of God, where it is a challenge to interpret His grand plan of humanity. Am I being clear here? Basically, A) Muffy the puppy dies because God wanted Muffy the puppy to die for some reason only HE knows. (active) B) Muffy the puppy dies because God has a plan, and somewhere in the machinations of this plan Muffy was to die. (passive) C) Muffy died of cancer. Cancer is part of God's plan, and we are still trying to figure it out. (high level plan, passive) D) Other?
Re: It seems funny to think of aged cardinals jostling for positiondrdeletoJanuary 7 2005, 17:13:09 UTC
Caveat: I have no personal experience of how Cardinals think, of course. But in a doctrinal sense, I'm pretty sure they do believe that God acts directly. Does that mean that just because JPI died that God disapproved? Not necessarily. Only that God had a reason for things working out that way. When you have an omnipotent, omniscient God who acts in the world, you basically have to treat every event as intended. Figuring out what was intended is the tricky part. So your "mysterious ways" characterization is correct, but I think the "directly and purposefully" one is, too. The muddiness between the two is due to the fact taht us imperfect humans can't quite wrap our brains around it all.
In case you're interested, here's what Ratzinger said about JPI:
After John Paul I was elected, "I felt very happy," Cardinal Ratzinger recalled. "To have as pastor of the universal Church a man of that goodness and luminous faith was a guarantee that everything was going well. He himself was very surprised and felt the weight of his great
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Oh, and I wanted to see if my post has my picture and stuff on it since I just registered.
Jeff (aka fufachew)
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Imagine, also, trying to make political decisions while entertaining the intercession of divine power! One of the articles I saw on Ratzinger quoted him as saying that the move to elect a non-Italian Pope came when they elected Pope John Paul I (an Italian)... and he died six months later. That's a tough rebuke. Hence, the Polish JPII--the first non-Italian pontiff since the 16th Century, I think.
Oh, and: Welcome, Foof!
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Basically,
A) Muffy the puppy dies because God wanted Muffy the puppy to die for some reason only HE knows. (active)
B) Muffy the puppy dies because God has a plan, and somewhere in the machinations of this plan Muffy was to die. (passive)
C) Muffy died of cancer. Cancer is part of God's plan, and we are still trying to figure it out. (high level plan, passive)
D) Other?
Reply
In case you're interested, here's what Ratzinger said about JPI:
After John Paul I was elected, "I felt very happy," Cardinal Ratzinger recalled. "To have as pastor of the universal Church a man of that goodness and luminous faith was a guarantee that everything was going well. He himself was very surprised and felt the weight of his great ( ... )
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