*sigh*
I just don't understand how people think they can call themselves christians just because they believe in God. It's sad to think so many people think they are saved just because they said a scripted prayer. They don't go to church, don't read their bibles (if they even own one), and don't live their lives to glorify God at all...Why do people think
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1. Have you ever worshipped anything but the one true living God?
2. Have you ever placed the importance of anything in your life before God? (If yes, that means you have worshipped that thing.)
3. Have you every missuesed God's name in thought or deed?
4. Have you always set aside a day of the week to worship and meditate on God?
5. Have you always done everything you can to honor your father and mother?
6. Have you ever murdered someone? (This includes hating someone.)
7. Have you ever committed adultry? (This includes fornification, lust, and the like.)
8. Have you ever stolen from anyone?
9. Have you ever lied to or decieved someone?
10. Have you ever wanted what did not belong to you?
As for myself, I'm 0 for 10, like all other human beings. This is why we are in such dire need of Christ. As God in the flesh and as God's Sone he was the only One capaable of living a sinless life to be a perfect sacrifice. He sacrificed himself, God's anger was poured out on His Son to pay for the sins of those chosen for eternal life.
Those who believe Christ is the Son of God, believe He died to pay the penality for their sins, and believe He came back to life after being dead for 3 days buried in the ground are chosen. And, those that are chosen have eternal life.
I pray that those who read this will take it to heart.
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Take my test and see how you fair in it:
1.Have you ever eaten anything other than some considered food?(ie: Crayon, plastic, grass/dirt)
2.Have you ever eaten any form of snack before your real meal?
3.Have you ever ate an absurd amount of anything?
4.Have you always planned out your meals for the week?
5.Have you always done everything you can to eat a well balanced meal?
6.Have you ever murdered anything to feed you?(this includes eating other peoples killings such as any form of Meat)
7.Have you ever swiped a sip of a drink or a nibble of food from your neighbor or friend?(This includes thinking about it as well)
8.Have you ever stolen some form of food?
9.Have you ever lied or deceived someone to get food?
10.Have you ever wanted food that was not intended for you?
If you scored 7+(as in 7 wrong or more) as I did and many other Americans then you my friend should follow the way of the Vegetarian. its obvious you lack certain eating disciplines there-for you must follow this RIGHT way or become fat. its your choice.
Your test proves nothing to me.
Its not a test to show why other people need god its a test to show why YOU think you need god. I hope you understand, and I tried explaining myself with a bit of humor so this doesn't turn into a religious battle on who is right or wrong. I just wanted to point out your fault on trying to sell me with your man-made Ten commandments
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Another question you might wish to ponder...How do you account for the logic you are using?
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and im not sure what your referring to when you say "How do you account for the logic you are using?" they are my views? that what your asking?
btw I <3 you Levi. I just have a different veiw on Religion.
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Atleast some people realize this.
"I have never heard of the creation making the creator."
Not sure what this is about because for God to be man-made would mean God as you know it doesnt exist. And I never said that.
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I think organized religion is a joke.
Christians and the other Godly religionists all think they are almighty and better than everyone else that isn't part of their way. want proof? What do you consider your religion? You consider it the 'Right' way. But how do you back it up, where is the proof that Christianity is the RIGHT way and everything else is wrong and going to hell? sure you can justify yourself as much as you want within your Religion but what does that mean? that is no proof to anyone outside your religion which is why you try to convince other people and with fear of something that may or may not exist 'Hell' then you have the power to sway them within your religion and make them another follower of the 'Right' way.
Do you think God the almighty being that created the world would care if you read Harry Potter? do you think God would honestly care if you used profanity? And even church, aslong as you believe and try your hardest to do the right thing everyday do you think he would care if you spent 2 hours on sunday singing worship songs? He is God, he isnt subject to Human emotions... he is not a King that needs to be praised on how great he is. as long as you believe and do the right thing or strive to do so. I feel that, that is enough.
There are good and bad people in anything of course. I have Christian friends one being you, kevin and dustin. some Jehovah friends Jason, Joshua, Evan and so on. So I dont hate religion.. or people of Religion. im just in the middle of the whole thing.
Here are some of my views.
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Not true of everyone, Christianity teaches that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God(Romans 2:11-13). You are attacking the adherents of the religion rather then the religion itself. Many people represent all different kinds of things. It doesn't mean that it isn't true.
want proof? What do you consider your religion? You consider it the 'Right' way. But how do you back it up, where is the proof that Christianity is the RIGHT way and everything else is wrong and going to hell? sure you can justify yourself as much as you want within your Religion but what does that mean? that is no proof to anyone outside your religion which is why you try to convince other people and with fear of something that may or may not exist 'Hell' then you have the power to sway them within your religion and make them another follower of the 'Right' way.
I don't see how that is proof. You are correct, I do consider it the right way. How do you know I can't justify myself? It could get quite exhaustive..so IM me or talk to me at school sometime and I will justify it.
I don't try to sway people with emotional persuasion either...It's not that easy. People are corrupt. They already have knowledge of God, but because they are depraved they suppress the truth.(Romans 1) God is the only one who can change the heart. Christians plant the seeds and water them by preaching the gospel, but God grants the growth.(1 Corinthians 3:5-7)
Do you think God the almighty being that created the world would care if you read Harry Potter? do you think God would honestly care if you used profanity?
Yes.
Ephesians 5:3-5
3But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
And even church, aslong as you believe and try your hardest to do the right thing everyday do you think he would care if you spent 2 hours on sunday singing worship songs? He is God, he isnt subject to Human emotions... he is not a King that needs to be praised on how great he is. as long as you believe and do the right thing or strive to do so. I feel that, that is enough.
We were created to glorify God. It is a chief purpose. He doesn't need praise, but he wants it. You are right, he isn't subject to human emotions. He isn't subject to our opinion or how we "feel" either. How do you know what to believe? What is the right thing?
There are good and bad people in anything of course. I have Christian friends one being you, kevin and dustin. some Jehovah friends Jason, Joshua, Evan and so on. So I dont hate religion.. or people of Religion. im just in the middle of the whole thing.
I realize you don't hate me; you are a friend and I care about you. This is why I tell you these things. If you want me to show you why I believe Christianity and not any other religion or cult that claims to be christianity; I will gladly show you why. In the mean time, here are some questions to ponder?
Is there such things as absolutes, or is everything relative?
How do we account for logic and reason?
What is morality? How do we account for it?
Levi <3
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"Christians and the other Godly religionists all think they are almighty and better than everyone else that isn't part of their way."
Not true of everyone, Christianity teaches that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God(Romans 2:11-13). You are attacking the adherents of the religion rather then the religion itself. Many people represent all different kinds of things. It doesn't mean that it isn't true.
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I ~WAS~ attacking the adherents of the religion rather then the religion itself. I was making a Generalization, You could say, but there are good and bad people in everything. America is full of fat people. granted there are many skinny people but it is still a fairly accurate generalization based on other countries. I was attacking the ones that call themselves Christians and the like as a whole since thats all that someone can do.
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want proof? What do you consider your religion? You consider it the 'Right' way. But how do you back it up, where is the proof that Christianity is the RIGHT way and everything else is wrong and going to hell? sure you can justify yourself as much as you want within your Religion but what does that mean? that is no proof to anyone outside your religion which is why you try to convince other people and with fear of something that may or may not exist 'Hell' then you have the power to sway them within your religion and make them another follower of the 'Right' way.
I don't see how that is proof. You are correct, I do consider it the right way. How do you know I can't justify myself? It could get quite exhaustive..so IM me or talk to me at school sometime and I will justify it.
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The reason that it is my proof is that im am trying to show you that Christians think as a whole that they are better than everyone else, if you dont want to believe it that is fine.. but your never on the Condescending receiving end since you are a Christian(and not a righteous prick). But to consider your Religion is the one and only true way has to take balls if you know what I mean. since there are people out there that are not Christian or the like.
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(Continued on next post due to size =\)
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Do you think God the almighty being that created the world would care if you read Harry Potter? do you think God would honestly care if you used profanity?
Yes.
Ephesians 5:3-5
3But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. 4Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. 5For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
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ok this response is all fine and dandy.. but I wasnt asking the Bible for the answer.. I was asking in your own opinion
I already expressed my views on the bible. It was written by man. then taken by a king to be organized(or whatever you would rather want to call it) there are a few versions of the 'bible' there are things like 'The Holy Quran' which is I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.. Jewish Religion only reads the Old Testament. But I assume God told them all to do this since they all believe in their Holy Book. Do you see where I am going with this? And yes 'The Bible' has the words of Jesus. Not only was the bible written a bunch of years after his passing but you have to first BELIEVE he did die for our sins and was the son of God.
He was a great man. But do you think his actions would have resulted in his death in todays society? Meaning that if he was alive now he wouldnt have ~died~ for our sins. What labels him as the Son of God? His actions, his ways of life, and his Death.
Weither or not he is the Son of God, He, like Buddha reached what some would call Inner peace or an enlightenment and being that Jesus is Jewish he obtained that through God while Buddha achieved enlightenment through other means. Either way he was a great man. and weither you look up to him as the Son of God or just a man achieved something not many are ever able to achieve he should still be admired for that regardless and in that aspect I most certainly do.
Im not here to Argue weither God existence or not.. nor am I saying Jesus didnt do the things he did. All im saying is that two sides of everything, and the very thing you cherish most might be the biggest piece of bull-crap in existence or it could all be completely true. I guess thats where faith comes into play.
I still feel at this moment though that Religion was created to easy peoples problems and to find inner-peace but now has molded into a way of controlling masses of people through that faith due to the corruption of man. Look at the spanish Inquisition or the Crusades for examples of that.
Maybe thats why there's various forms of religion?
Just somethings to think about aswell.
Try thinking outside the bible if you decide to respond =)
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The bible reflects my opinion. I base my opinions of truth.
I already expressed my views on the bible. It was written by man. then taken by a king to be organized(or whatever you would rather want to call it)
On what basis do you make the claim that it was organized by a king? That contradicts even secular historical evidence. The men were inspired by the holy spirit.
there are a few versions of the 'bible' there are things like 'The Holy Quran' which is I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.. Jewish Religion only reads the Old Testament.
The Quran is not a version of the bible. It's a totally different book. It is full of errors to say the least. The Quran gives credit to the bible while refuting itself. I can show you when I have the time if you'd like.
But I assume God told them all to do this since they all believe in their Holy Book.
Are you appealing to relativism?
Not only was the bible written a bunch of years after his passing
Define a bunch of years? The oldest historical NT document we have was written less then 50 years after his death and resurrection. We have more manuscripts of the bible than any other historical document in the world.
He was a great man. But do you think his actions would have resulted in his death in todays society? Meaning that if he was alive now he wouldnt have ~died~ for our sins. What labels him as the Son of God? His actions, his ways of life, and his Death.
If he it had happened in todays society then it wouldn't be the Son of God, because the things that happened were prophesied in the OT.
Weither or not he is the Son of God, He, like Buddha reached what some would call Inner peace or an enlightenment and being that Jesus is Jewish he obtained that through God while Buddha achieved enlightenment through other means. Either way he was a great man. and weither you look up to him as the Son of God or just a man achieved something not many are ever able to achieve he should still be admired for that regardless and in that aspect I most certainly do.
No, that is misrepresenting Jesus. We can talk buddhism if you want. And I can show you why buddhism is not the correct way to go if you wish to think correctly.
All im saying is that two sides of everything, and the very thing you cherish most might be the biggest piece of bull-crap in existence or it could all be completely true. I guess thats where faith comes into play.
Faith, reason, and logic.
Try thinking outside the bible if you decide to respond =)
I've done a lot of thinking outside the bible, but I use the bible to make sure you represent what we believe correctly incase you ever talk to anyone else. And because it holds truth about this world that cannot be accounted for else where.
When you reject the christian worldview. You are rejecting logic and reason. I won't get into all that yet, but just some more to think about.
By the way, I'd love to talk about buddhism with you. =P
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---"I already expressed my views on the bible. It was written by man. then taken by a king to be organized(or whatever you would rather want to call it)"
On what basis do you make the claim that it was organized by a king? That contradicts even secular historical evidence. The men were inspired by the holy spirit.----
Do some research... King Constintine, what he did was what i was refering to. nothing more nothing less.
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---"there are a few versions of the 'bible' there are things like 'The Holy Quran' which is I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.. Jewish Religion only reads the Old Testament."
The Quran is not a version of the bible. It's a totally different book. It is full of errors to say the least. The Quran gives credit to the bible while refuting itself. I can show you when I have the time if you'd like.---
Read before you type.. I never said it was a version of the bible. i just said it could be like a brother to the bible.. "~~there are things like~~ 'The Holy Quran' I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.." Dodge neon and Buick skylark are two different companies but they are still cars, same concept as I was trying to potray
You say it is full of errors. This is a one-sided observation.
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---He was a great man. But do you think his actions would have resulted in his death in todays society? Meaning that if he was alive now he wouldnt have ~died~ for our sins. What labels him as the Son of God? His actions, his ways of life, and his Death.
If he it had happened in todays society then it wouldn't be the Son of God, because the things that happened were prophesied in the OT.---
Fine Levi my example was a poor one. I was attepting to say that Jesus got lucky if you want to say in the Eyes of Christianity. Many Jews view Jesus as just one in a long list of failed Jewish claimants to be the messiah. I found a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#In_the_New_Testament
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Nothing else is worth commenting about. Why would I want to talk about somthing you completely disagree with? its obvious what your going to say in the end. I have my veiw, you have yours. If you want to think you are supreme ultimate since Christianity wants to claim its the right way, go right ahead.
This might be my last post since this whole thing has went down hill from an open disscusion to basicly You(levi) are right, which may be the case for you, but it isnt for me. And before either of us become to involved in this post I think we should leave it at this. Unless you want to end a perfectly fine friendship over this. and dont say "But im not going to get upset" or anything of that matter. because who ever gets upset enough to say things that they did not mean the other person was just as much to blame for instagating.
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---"I already expressed my views on the bible. It was written by man. then taken by a king to be organized(or whatever you would rather want to call it)"
On what basis do you make the claim that it was organized by a king? That contradicts even secular historical evidence. The men were inspired by the holy spirit.----
Do some research... King Constintine, what he did was what i was refering to. nothing more nothing less.
Emperor Constantine did not organize the bible. The works that were considered inerrant were already in a wide and organized circulation before the meeting of the Council of Nicea. In fact, there is no historical evidence for a discussion over which scriptures should be in the bible at the council of Nicea.
---"there are a few versions of the 'bible' there are things like 'The Holy Quran' which is I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.. Jewish Religion only reads the Old Testament."
The Quran is not a version of the bible. It's a totally different book. It is full of errors to say the least. The Quran gives credit to the bible while refuting itself. I can show you when I have the time if you'd like.---
Read before you type.. I never said it was a version of the bible. i just said it could be like a brother to the bible.. "~~there are things like~~ 'The Holy Quran' I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.." Dodge neon and Buick skylark are two different companies but they are still cars, same concept as I was trying to potray
Read your sentence: "there are a few versions of the 'bible' there are things like 'The Holy Quran' which is I guess one could say a brother to the Christian Bible.. Jewish Religion only reads the Old Testament."
The beginning of your sentence heavily implies that you were considering it a version of the bible. Forgive me for misconstruing your information; I misunderstood.(this is not sarcasm, I am being sincere)
You say it is full of errors. This is a one-sided observation.
All observations are one-sided. All facts are interpreted within a context or philosophy of fact. But one is correct and the other is not. I can account for the logic and reason I am using to make my deductions, because the bible teaches that this knowledge is from God, Because we were created in his image. Can you account for the logic and reason you use to make arguments?
---He was a great man. But do you think his actions would have resulted in his death in todays society? Meaning that if he was alive now he wouldnt have ~died~ for our sins. What labels him as the Son of God? His actions, his ways of life, and his Death.
If he it had happened in todays society then it wouldn't be the Son of God, because the things that happened were prophesied in the OT.---
Fine Levi my example was a poor one. I was attepting to say that Jesus got lucky if you want to say in the Eyes of Christianity. Many Jews view Jesus as just one in a long list of failed Jewish claimants to be the messiah. I found a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#In_the_New_Testament
It's apparent that historical facts do us no good in you defending your case, or me defending mine.
To be continued due to length...
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