Stop with the Kool-Aid

[crashska]

Montana just saw the final phase of their anti-smoking law go into effect. Smoking in all bars is now outlawed, the final phase, and now we're bombarded with all kinds of ads about how great it is that Montana is smoke-free!(!!1!!one!!!won?!nopeit'sspelled'one'youdolt!!!) Bar owners saying how it's been great for business, cheesy local bands

Comments

[crashska]

I can understand being pleased that there will be more smoke-free places to go. I don't smoke either, and I have no real love for the smell of it. But as a customer, everyone has the choice to go or not go to a place of business. If you don't like part of the experience, you can choose to go elsewhere. The part that really gets my goat is that the state is deciding this for people, rather than letting proprietors and patrons decide it for themselves. It doesn't even allow for some measure of compromise or innovation, like designing an HVAC system so all the air gets drawn from the non-smoking area through the smoking section before being exhausted... but I've never seen that even discussed.

Sadly, the state-wide association of bar owners went along with designing this legislation. Not because they wanted to, but because it was the only way they could buy time for compliance for their members. There's a statewide radio show, Voices of Montana, that does a decent job of discussing issues like this, and one guest was the spokesman for the Bar Owners Association. He pointed out that not even smokers really fought against this legislation. The referendum passed by a wide margin, and the bar owners were the last holdouts opposing it. So ends another little personal freedom in the West.

Another annoying thing about this is the enforcement mechanism isn't clearly defined- the only thing I've heard is it will be 'citizen-enforced,' that people can report violations on a state website. Fines rack up fairly quickly, but there's no mention of how the state will verify that a violation has taken place, or the circumstances. What if a crotchety old man gets ticked off and lights up, but an employee quickly tells him he has to take it outside? There aren't any clear answers on how this will be dealt with.

[theassassinnox]

I guess I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the problem, as all of CA has been non smoking for a LONG time.

Honestly, if it were just up to choice...I'd never be able to eat out, period. Someone is smoking or has been smoking...I can taste it. (Sometimes I hate having a really good nose).

As for the air systems, it's not an option for most establishments unless there is a lot of money hidden somewhere that can be put to use there. It's sad, but with the state of the economy, it's simply easier to ban the smoking than look for alternative solutions.

[crashska]

Fair enough. :) I don't disagree with not wanting to eat where there's smoke- I don't really like it either. If I were faced with choosing between a smoky bar and a clear dining room, I'd take the latter, every time. That's one thing about the ads that really bothers me- testimonials from proprietors that their business increases when smoking is banned. They already have the right to make their establishment non-smoking.

I know CA has been non-smoking for a while, but the basic argument in my mind is this: When a state enacts a law like this, it infringes on liberty- specifically, the rights of owners to run their business as they see fit, to serve the customers in the manner they deem best, and the right of customers to enjoy perfectly legal activities. I've seen plenty of establishments that are non-smoking when smoking inside is legal; the owners chose to make their place smoke-free for some reason. It may have lost them business or gained them business, but it was their choice and the economic outcome was their responsibility. Similarly, if something like 80%+ of the population prefers smoke-free, they'll vote with their pocketbooks. The minority that smokes and wants to do so while drinking should be able to do the same, and patronize whichever establishments decide to allow it. If there are enough of them, there will still be places that allow it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative or disagreeable- I just think we approach this from different viewpoints, and I can't help debating stuff. In fact... it's getting rarer that anyone does. I miss it. Thanks for indulging me! :D

[theassassinnox]

I'm glad to indulge you....though I'm not sure what else I can add to the conversation. Sorry, I'm a poor debater. *laughs*

Thanks for the interesting, mature conversation....there aren't enough of those in the world anymore.