Torchwood Sins and Virtues Prologue: Justice in Torchwood

[crabby_lioness]

Torchwood Sins and Virtues Prologue:  Justice in Torchwood

I'm going to post about the various sins and virtues of the Torchwood characters, starting with Owen.  It didn't take me long to realize I first needed to post about justice in Torchwood.

There's more than one system of justice in the world.  Anthropologists sometimes distinguish between "

Comments

[eumenidis]

I'm not familiar with anthropological classes of justice systems, & I'm sure the definitions are more complex than the brief description you're able to give here, but I agree that a village justice system is applied to the members of Torchwood. I can see, though, why some people would feel that there was no justice in Torchwood; long before the junior members' mutiny, each one had committed offences for which a less lenient village chieftain (ie, Jack) could have applied the maximum penalty.

[crabby_lioness]

Not necessarily. The maximum penalty was usually reserved for multiple murderers, and I can think of one case where it was only used for serial killers.

[eumenidis]

I assume you're referencing actual field studies. I'm more familiar with archaeology, & civilizations populous enough that the Imperial form of justice would be the one applied, but I seem to vaguely recall that different cultures varied in the strictness or imposing penalties. However, I can't recall anything specific, so I defer to your more definitive knowledge.

[crabby_lioness]

Multiple murders or blasphemy, I should have said. It would be interesting to see what Torchwood would consider blasphemy.

[donutsweeper]

Okay, this is facinating. Pretty much, through most of humanity's history 'village justice' was the only justice that mattered. It's only been then last couple hundred years or so that imperial justice mattered.

This idea is really brought up in "EOD", as you mentioned. Owen gets REALLY pale when the idea of him getting fired is brought up.

[eumenidis]

Most of human history, certainly, though only the last couple hundred years...not so sure; humans have been organizing themselves into complex civilizations with central locations of populations in the thousands for the last 5-6,000 years. Probably, yes, most of the time even up to the present, village justice was the only relevant form of justice, but there might also, depending on where you lived be an Imperial form that could come into play. Example: 1600s Boston colony vs. 1600s London.

Re: Owen--pale? The little creep was more upset at being fired than when Diane left or almost winding up as Weevil chow. (That boy just *ain't* right.)

[donutsweeper]

I'm not about to defend Owen! But you do have a point, villiage vs imperial justice did depend on where you lived. There are some places today that it still is, basically, the only justice (i.e. the "shunning" for an Amish person who breaks the law. No jail time or anything like that, but no one in the community will speak to you)

[eumenidis]

Didn't think you were defending him; just emphasizing that Owen did regard exile from Torchwood as possibly THE worst thing that could happen to him.

[hellenebright]

I'm not sure how relevant theoretical views of societal justice systems are in this context, and I'm not convinced that only mass murder and blasphemy attracted the ultimate punishment. After all, there are enough instances of villagers stoning adulterers and families murdering family members who have committed "sexual sins".

Jack is entirely pragmatic. He kills Suzie because she'd become a menace - she shot him in the head. He doesn't kill Ianto - perhaps he knew he'd overstepped some mark. Perhaps he thought Ianto's threats weren't serious. He lets Jasmine goes because the fairies are stronger than he is. He believes their threats.

[crabby_lioness]

Of course Jack is pragmatic. All of the Team are pragmatic. I'm talking about the ways in which their pragmatism manifests and interacts.

[hellenebright]

But that's different to "village justice". "Village justice" works over the long term by consensus, not by the will of the headman - if the village does not agree with the punishment, the whole system breaks down. As (for example) has happened recently on Pitcairn, where up till recently the sexual abuse of young girls by older men was considered acceptable, until a young girl was raped by a visiting New Zealander. The elders considered the case and sent the young man away, but this prompted a number of other young women to complain of abuse.

None of Jack's team agreed with his decision about Jasmine - I don't think they believed his explanation (at least that was how it appeared to me) - but they had no-one else to turn to, and and organisation that doesn't work by consensus.

If anything, TW3 is more like a robber barony, with Jack as the robber baron whose word is law.

[crabby_lioness]

I would say that consensus was exactly how TW3 worked in S1. On several occassions (Day One, Small Worlds, Countrycide, Combat) the Team takes a moment to look at each other before making their decision. In Small Worlds the Team didn't agree about Jasmine, but none of them could come up with a better idea. They still shunned Jack afterwards.

In EoD we see the consensus break down. Not only does the Team disagree with Jack as they did in Small Worlds, this time they think they have a workable alternative. Even then, they are willing to accept Jack's plan instead of their own until he tells them flat out he doesn't have one. It's only when the Jack fails to act as the deaths start mounting that they turn against him.

[coffeegirl18]

Ah good way to put it. I took anthro last year at uni....

[silverotter]

That's a fairly brilliant way to put it. I really do get ticked at the people who complain about the way that Torchwood runs.

(P.S. Did you get my story? I wasn't sure, because sometimes my email provider gets finicky with whom I can send email too.)

[crabby_lioness]

Yes. I need to look up the quotes in Ralph Ellison.

[silverotter]

Brilliant. Thanks so much. If you don't want to bother to go to the library (sometimes they don't even have it.) you can use the "Search Inside" function on Amazon for quotes.