Okay CC you said you love a good discussion…here are some of my thoughts:
CC “or take into consideration the revelations we were given in “Tempus” about Spring-heeled Jack.” I’ll agree with you on that and what John might have been referring to with the “I’ve already murdered what? Seven whores.”….is the uncertainty to how many that truly are attributed to JtR. http://www.casebook.org/intro.html As to the actual number of women that the Ripper killed, Philip Sugden wrote in his excellent book, The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, "There is no simple answer. In a sentence: at least four, probably six, just possibly eight." And later…Besides these five there are good reasons to believe that the first victim was really Martha Tabram who was murdered Tuesday, August 7, 1888 http://www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.html Also keep in mind that Montague John Druitt was discovered drowned in the Thames River on December 31, 1888; so I would bet Damian kept this in mind when he wrote the pilot.
CC-”past!Helen kept putting her hand to her stomach, and my first thought was “OMG she is pregnant!” I wondered over that action too, but thought she might have some indigestion from the stress she was under. We don’t know what PastHelen was doing before she came into the room. But yeah I found it odd.
Scigeek17 “Adam had no intention of seriously altering the timeline, just saving his daughter.” But Adam did have more intention of seriously altering the timeline. He made it clear to Helen in the Gentlemen’s club scene that he didn’t care of about the present. And when he was talking with Imogene he told her they could do anything and control the world. Sounds to me like he had more planned than what we learned about.
Scigeek17 "the world is ending" when it really wasn't. And accusing past!Adam when he had done nothing yet and she knew this.”
Also don’t forget that more lives are at stake because of the upheaval with the Abnormals coming from Hollow Earth and the Governments reactions to it. Helen just came from there and she was pissed.
CC-"Secondly, why was future!Magnus worried and even prepared to shoot John. Didn't she already go through that and know he didn't kill her??? I asked that same question, but was reminded - - that future!Helen had taken the guns out of the drawer that past!Helen was reaching into. Maybe in the past, Helen had threatened John with the gun, but since she didn't have it, future!Helen was ready just in case."
Oh me too, I wondered if she had gone through it before or if she had already done something to change the timeline. She just seemed so surprised and when she walked into the room after Helen left it was as if she didn’t know anything about it happening. Then when she told James that John was there and James responded by saying she meant he should not lose focus on the case because of her distracting him. I’m still not sure about it.
Scigeek17 “what were your thoughts when Magnus told Watson she should commit suicide!?” As strongly as she felt about Adam not changing the timeline and her comment to Adam before she killed him “Do it, neither one of us belong here.” I do think she was afraid that she would unintentionally do something to change the timeline herself and didn’t consider anything beyond removing herself from the past.
Also keep in mind that Montague John Druitt was discovered drowned in the Thames River on December 31, 1888; so I would bet Damian kept this in mind when he wrote the pilot. I did not know that! How did I not know that? So, what do you mean you bet Damien kept this in mind when he wrote the pilot?
I wondered over that action too, but thought she might have some indigestion from the stress she was under. Yes...I had that thought as well, but I was so excited about the possibility that we were wrong about the pregnancy year. She could have just had nerves about the new murders.
But Adam did have more intention of seriously altering the timeline. He made it clear to Helen in the Gentlemen’s club scene that he didn’t care of about the present. And when he was talking with Imogene he told her they could do anything and control the world. Sounds to me like he had more planned than what we learned about. That is right! I forgot about that. Yeah, he wanted to change everything. He had no intention of going back the the present.
She just seemed so surprised and when she walked into the room after Helen left it was as if she didn’t know anything about it happening. Then when she told James that John was there and James responded by saying she meant he should not lose focus on the case because of her distracting him. I’m still not sure about it. I think she was still trying to figure out when exactly they had jumped back to. I can't even remember what day something happened last month, nevermind 113 years ago.
I do think she was afraid that she would unintentionally do something to change the timeline herself and didn’t consider anything beyond removing herself from the past. I totally agree! Which is why I really want to know how she spends those 113 years of "solitude". That part of the scene was so comic, but not, at the same time.
CC-"So, what do you mean you bet Damien kept this in mind when he wrote the pilot?" Only that Damian did his research and would use that to mess with our minds :P. I wouldn't put it past him to use the time of the drowning for the time that Druit disappears from London.
JanSam - Re: Helen's suicide idea - you said... As strongly as she felt about Adam not changing the timeline and her comment to Adam before she killed him “Do it, neither one of us belong here.” I do think she was afraid that she would unintentionally do something to change the timeline herself and didn’t consider anything beyond removing herself from the past.
Which is sad because she was so worried about preserving the future she was willing to throw it away. While I make no bones about hating the sensationalizing of suicide on TV - I didn't think it sounded like Helen at all to give up so easily. So she stops Adam and all is right in her world, now she can die??? Sorry I don't buy it. The abnormals are taking over in a massive ground attack and that's what she's willing to die to protect?
You would have thought that she would have thought of another solution. She should have understood that she NEEDED to remain alive so that she could jump back into the timeline later and help Will. Someone definitely wasn't thinking that one through when they wrote the script.
:D Hi Annie :D Oh how I miss our discussion on IM. You make a very good point; it's hard to believe Helen would give up so easily when there was still the battle raging on the surface. Did she know about the Abnormal's massive invasion or was she out of communication with Henry by the time that happened? Not hard to guess what the government's response was going to be though. Only thing which might explain her willingness was maybe she hadn't had time to really think it through and hence why she was talking to James before she did anything?
Glad you found where I've gone to discuss the episodes.
Hi Jan! *waves* :D I THINK the last thing Helen saw/was aware of was being pestered by gov. officials (or whomever) about the escalating situation with the abnormals in the tent city, but it wasn't a full out invasion when she left. However, the fact there were abnormals in the tent city probably a good reason to be concerned. :P
She probably didn't think it through - but I hate that her first reaction was to give up. Shouldn't there be some fight in her? Maybe it was the end of the show and they need a quick solution? I dunno. lol
Well to be fair, Helen's first reaction wasn't her normal brilliant mind at work for most of the episode. She was enraged at FutureAdam and took it out on PastAdam. She also allowed herself to release her rage at PastJohn. So yeah she wasn't at her best :P.
CC “or take into consideration the revelations we were given in “Tempus” about Spring-heeled Jack.”
I’ll agree with you on that and what John might have been referring to with the “I’ve already murdered what? Seven whores.”….is the uncertainty to how many that truly are attributed to JtR.
http://www.casebook.org/intro.html
As to the actual number of women that the Ripper killed, Philip Sugden wrote in his excellent book, The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, "There is no simple answer. In a sentence: at least four, probably six, just possibly eight."
And later…Besides these five there are good reasons to believe that the first victim was really Martha Tabram who was murdered Tuesday, August 7, 1888
http://www.casebook.org/suspects/druitt.html
Also keep in mind that Montague John Druitt was discovered drowned in the Thames River on December 31, 1888; so I would bet Damian kept this in mind when he wrote the pilot.
CC-”past!Helen kept putting her hand to her stomach, and my first thought was “OMG she is pregnant!”
I wondered over that action too, but thought she might have some indigestion from the stress she was under. We don’t know what PastHelen was doing before she came into the room. But yeah I found it odd.
Scigeek17 “Adam had no intention of seriously altering the timeline, just saving his daughter.”
But Adam did have more intention of seriously altering the timeline. He made it clear to Helen in the Gentlemen’s club scene that he didn’t care of about the present. And when he was talking with Imogene he told her they could do anything and control the world. Sounds to me like he had more planned than what we learned about.
Scigeek17 "the world is ending" when it really wasn't. And accusing past!Adam when he had done nothing yet and she knew this.”
Also don’t forget that more lives are at stake because of the upheaval with the Abnormals coming from Hollow Earth and the Governments reactions to it. Helen just came from there and she was pissed.
CC-"Secondly, why was future!Magnus worried and even prepared to shoot John. Didn't she already go through that and know he didn't kill her???
I asked that same question, but was reminded - - that future!Helen had taken the guns out of the drawer that past!Helen was reaching into. Maybe in the past, Helen had threatened John with the gun, but since she didn't have it, future!Helen was ready just in case."
Oh me too, I wondered if she had gone through it before or if she had already done something to change the timeline. She just seemed so surprised and when she walked into the room after Helen left it was as if she didn’t know anything about it happening. Then when she told James that John was there and James responded by saying she meant he should not lose focus on the case because of her distracting him. I’m still not sure about it.
Scigeek17 “what were your thoughts when Magnus told Watson she should commit suicide!?”
As strongly as she felt about Adam not changing the timeline and her comment to Adam before she killed him “Do it, neither one of us belong here.” I do think she was afraid that she would unintentionally do something to change the timeline herself and didn’t consider anything beyond removing herself from the past.
JanSam
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I did not know that! How did I not know that? So, what do you mean you bet Damien kept this in mind when he wrote the pilot?
I wondered over that action too, but thought she might have some indigestion from the stress she was under.
Yes...I had that thought as well, but I was so excited about the possibility that we were wrong about the pregnancy year. She could have just had nerves about the new murders.
But Adam did have more intention of seriously altering the timeline. He made it clear to Helen in the Gentlemen’s club scene that he didn’t care of about the present. And when he was talking with Imogene he told her they could do anything and control the world. Sounds to me like he had more planned than what we learned about.
That is right! I forgot about that. Yeah, he wanted to change everything. He had no intention of going back the the present.
She just seemed so surprised and when she walked into the room after Helen left it was as if she didn’t know anything about it happening. Then when she told James that John was there and James responded by saying she meant he should not lose focus on the case because of her distracting him. I’m still not sure about it.
I think she was still trying to figure out when exactly they had jumped back to. I can't even remember what day something happened last month, nevermind 113 years ago.
I do think she was afraid that she would unintentionally do something to change the timeline herself and didn’t consider anything beyond removing herself from the past.
I totally agree! Which is why I really want to know how she spends those 113 years of "solitude". That part of the scene was so comic, but not, at the same time.
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Only that Damian did his research and would use that to mess with our minds :P. I wouldn't put it past him to use the time of the drowning for the time that Druit disappears from London.
JanSam
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As strongly as she felt about Adam not changing the timeline and her comment to Adam before she killed him “Do it, neither one of us belong here.” I do think she was afraid that she would unintentionally do something to change the timeline herself and didn’t consider anything beyond removing herself from the past.
Which is sad because she was so worried about preserving the future she was willing to throw it away. While I make no bones about hating the sensationalizing of suicide on TV - I didn't think it sounded like Helen at all to give up so easily. So she stops Adam and all is right in her world, now she can die??? Sorry I don't buy it. The abnormals are taking over in a massive ground attack and that's what she's willing to die to protect?
Ann_sgcfan
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Oh how I miss our discussion on IM. You make a very good point; it's hard to believe Helen would give up so easily when there was still the battle raging on the surface. Did she know about the Abnormal's massive invasion or was she out of communication with Henry by the time that happened? Not hard to guess what the government's response was going to be though. Only thing which might explain her willingness was maybe she hadn't had time to really think it through and hence why she was talking to James before she did anything?
Glad you found where I've gone to discuss the episodes.
JanSam
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I THINK the last thing Helen saw/was aware of was being pestered by gov. officials (or whomever) about the escalating situation with the abnormals in the tent city, but it wasn't a full out invasion when she left. However, the fact there were abnormals in the tent city probably a good reason to be concerned. :P
She probably didn't think it through - but I hate that her first reaction was to give up. Shouldn't there be some fight in her? Maybe it was the end of the show and they need a quick solution? I dunno. lol
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JanSam
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