(no subject)
Today I was a-flippin' through the channels on my TV and up pops this "minister." This "reverend," was talking about his "training" in the "art of the ministry of Jesus." This dude starts talking about how he went to "seminary." For those of you that don't know, seminary is like minister school. They learn to do their stuff there and get their "degree" so they can become the leader of a congregation. Other "ministers" are just "called by the spirit," and are appointed without training at all - other than a strong voice, and a good ability to speak. For those of you that have the unspeakable pleasure to know Abbey Van-Dyke, her father is one of the latter. Anyways, I've had arguments with people before about the necessity of training in order to do that particular profession and you would be shocked at the number of people that think it's perfectly okay to just, you know...do it.
To allow someone to be a minister with no formal theological training and no training as a counselor
is the same as giving someone an M.D. without teaching them anatomy.
For most mainstream protestant denominations in this country: The United Church of Christ, The Disciples of Christ, The Presbyterian Church U.S.A., The Lutheran Church (NOT Missouri Synod Lutherans), The American Baptist Coallition (also called A.B.C. Baptists), The Evangelical and Reformed, Universalist Unitarian (though they are not explicitly "christian," since they don't profess Jesus as a savior), The Moravian Church, most United Methodist churches, the Episcopalian church and a whole bunch of others require the following as training:
1) A degree from a four year institution, preferebly not in theology. No theological instruction is preferred because they don't want you to be biassed without having all the facts.
2) A rigorous set of psychological testing to evaluate your ability to lead a congregation and be a minister of sound mind.
3) The GRE (Graduate Requirements Examination) a test you take to move on to grad school.
4) Grades are taken into consideration as well as volunteer service and a written personal statement.
5) Once accepted, four years of seminary. Seminary includes courses in Old Testament, New Testament, Biblical interpretation, Archaeology, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Jewish Culture, Islamic Culture, Ancient and Modern Christianity, The Role of Women Through the Evolution of the Christian Church, Christianity and Children, etc. and they can go to classes with as narrow a focus as: "Christianity in the Japanese-American Community," "The Role of Ethnic Congregations," "Gay Theology and Universal Love." They read the original texts of the Bible and learn how it differs from the English. They have Jewish teachers of the Old Testament and the Torah, and Islamic teachers of the Qur'an.
6) More psychological testing to get someone ready for CPE (Clinical Pastoral Education). This is where they spend 1 - 2 years working in a hospital or something in order to feel what it's like to be around those who need someone like them. They confront things like death, hoplesness etc.
7) They then spend a year or so shadowing a minister in a congregation setting. They learn on the job. Then, usually they get a church of their own.
That is the education process for the mainstream. It's difficult, but they learn the reality of what they're talking about. Next is what those fly-by-night idiots do at MOST:
1) 2 years of "bible college" (NEVER trust anyone who says they got an education at a "bible college") This means two years of very, very slanted theology. Usually they study an English version of the bible only. They are taught that the bible is a literal document and to interpret it is "twisting the words of G-d," they usually get some sort of degree afterwards and some mail away for "Doctorates" at the end of the process.
But even then, when one is brought up in a mainstream denomination. A lot of Christian children (I would think 99%), don't even know about the other dimensions of their faith: Like for instance: Ask any Christian who's into "bible trivia" how many books are in the Bible. Most would say 66. Ok. Yeah, that's the Christian cannon. Meaning, those are the ones the catholics use. But how many of you know that there are 129 books that were edited out of the Bible by the catholic church in the early days of the church because they didn't jive with catholic belief?? How about the Gospel of Nicodemus where Jesus descends to Hell after his crucifixtion? The Catholics didn't like this because "Hell" was not a place for "bad people" to go when they died. Hell was a place where EVERYONE went. And they slept there. And Jesus frees the prophets of old Elijah, Jeremiah etc. from this place. This should prove to you all that the Christian idea of Hell is based on the Jewish idea of Shaol. A place where everybody goes. And there's no mention of fire or brimstone etc. What about the other ones where there's a second creation story, or where Jesus is born in a cave to Mary and she is alone and starving?? It seems to me that people need to learn how to read before they can talk about something as if they know it front and back.
"Know your bible" is a terrible statement. Know and love each other, regardless of difference, and through that know what the purpose of this book was in the first place.
So, now that you've read this. And I could go on to talk about things like how women were the leaders of the early church, and how priests were told to remain celibate so the church would inherit their property, or how gay people have been hated for centuries because of a bad translation done in the 12th century....but next time you hear someone claiming to be a "minister," don't just trust them. Don't ever take what someone says as cannon just because they say it. Look for sources, look for corroberation, get a second opionion. Make an effort to learn and if this "minister" doesn't want you to - you can be certain that there's something not right. My gripe with conservative Christianity is not totally the hateful things they say, it's that they encourage people to NOT think. They try to feed them answers and that brings me to tears because what is any religion if not just one of trillions of paths to whatever you call G-d? (Adonai, Buddha, the Goddess etc.) And how can you walk a path without reading a map first. Anyways. Here are some links for you. Want to read the apocryphal books? Want to know that they really exist. Check out these links. You won't be dissapointed.
http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/new-testament-apocrypha/ (the New Testament ones)
http://www.carm.org/lostbooks.htm (The Old Testament ones)
All the information on the training of mainstream ministers comes from my parents who are mainstream ministers. So that's a primary source.
Shalom, all. Thanks.
To allow someone to be a minister with no formal theological training and no training as a counselor
is the same as giving someone an M.D. without teaching them anatomy.
For most mainstream protestant denominations in this country: The United Church of Christ, The Disciples of Christ, The Presbyterian Church U.S.A., The Lutheran Church (NOT Missouri Synod Lutherans), The American Baptist Coallition (also called A.B.C. Baptists), The Evangelical and Reformed, Universalist Unitarian (though they are not explicitly "christian," since they don't profess Jesus as a savior), The Moravian Church, most United Methodist churches, the Episcopalian church and a whole bunch of others require the following as training:
1) A degree from a four year institution, preferebly not in theology. No theological instruction is preferred because they don't want you to be biassed without having all the facts.
2) A rigorous set of psychological testing to evaluate your ability to lead a congregation and be a minister of sound mind.
3) The GRE (Graduate Requirements Examination) a test you take to move on to grad school.
4) Grades are taken into consideration as well as volunteer service and a written personal statement.
5) Once accepted, four years of seminary. Seminary includes courses in Old Testament, New Testament, Biblical interpretation, Archaeology, Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Jewish Culture, Islamic Culture, Ancient and Modern Christianity, The Role of Women Through the Evolution of the Christian Church, Christianity and Children, etc. and they can go to classes with as narrow a focus as: "Christianity in the Japanese-American Community," "The Role of Ethnic Congregations," "Gay Theology and Universal Love." They read the original texts of the Bible and learn how it differs from the English. They have Jewish teachers of the Old Testament and the Torah, and Islamic teachers of the Qur'an.
6) More psychological testing to get someone ready for CPE (Clinical Pastoral Education). This is where they spend 1 - 2 years working in a hospital or something in order to feel what it's like to be around those who need someone like them. They confront things like death, hoplesness etc.
7) They then spend a year or so shadowing a minister in a congregation setting. They learn on the job. Then, usually they get a church of their own.
That is the education process for the mainstream. It's difficult, but they learn the reality of what they're talking about. Next is what those fly-by-night idiots do at MOST:
1) 2 years of "bible college" (NEVER trust anyone who says they got an education at a "bible college") This means two years of very, very slanted theology. Usually they study an English version of the bible only. They are taught that the bible is a literal document and to interpret it is "twisting the words of G-d," they usually get some sort of degree afterwards and some mail away for "Doctorates" at the end of the process.
But even then, when one is brought up in a mainstream denomination. A lot of Christian children (I would think 99%), don't even know about the other dimensions of their faith: Like for instance: Ask any Christian who's into "bible trivia" how many books are in the Bible. Most would say 66. Ok. Yeah, that's the Christian cannon. Meaning, those are the ones the catholics use. But how many of you know that there are 129 books that were edited out of the Bible by the catholic church in the early days of the church because they didn't jive with catholic belief?? How about the Gospel of Nicodemus where Jesus descends to Hell after his crucifixtion? The Catholics didn't like this because "Hell" was not a place for "bad people" to go when they died. Hell was a place where EVERYONE went. And they slept there. And Jesus frees the prophets of old Elijah, Jeremiah etc. from this place. This should prove to you all that the Christian idea of Hell is based on the Jewish idea of Shaol. A place where everybody goes. And there's no mention of fire or brimstone etc. What about the other ones where there's a second creation story, or where Jesus is born in a cave to Mary and she is alone and starving?? It seems to me that people need to learn how to read before they can talk about something as if they know it front and back.
"Know your bible" is a terrible statement. Know and love each other, regardless of difference, and through that know what the purpose of this book was in the first place.
So, now that you've read this. And I could go on to talk about things like how women were the leaders of the early church, and how priests were told to remain celibate so the church would inherit their property, or how gay people have been hated for centuries because of a bad translation done in the 12th century....but next time you hear someone claiming to be a "minister," don't just trust them. Don't ever take what someone says as cannon just because they say it. Look for sources, look for corroberation, get a second opionion. Make an effort to learn and if this "minister" doesn't want you to - you can be certain that there's something not right. My gripe with conservative Christianity is not totally the hateful things they say, it's that they encourage people to NOT think. They try to feed them answers and that brings me to tears because what is any religion if not just one of trillions of paths to whatever you call G-d? (Adonai, Buddha, the Goddess etc.) And how can you walk a path without reading a map first. Anyways. Here are some links for you. Want to read the apocryphal books? Want to know that they really exist. Check out these links. You won't be dissapointed.
http://www.comparative-religion.com/christianity/apocrypha/new-testament-apocrypha/ (the New Testament ones)
http://www.carm.org/lostbooks.htm (The Old Testament ones)
All the information on the training of mainstream ministers comes from my parents who are mainstream ministers. So that's a primary source.
Shalom, all. Thanks.