While I'm fully aware that money can't buy happiness, I wouldn't mind being known as that melancholy guy who drives the red Lamborghini Diablo. -- George Olson
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I know! While we're at it, we should also get rid of the distinctions between Murder 1, 2, and Manslaughter.
I mean. The person is dead, right? Who cares if you planned their assassination for months, or just shot them when you saw them on your wife, or that bottle smashed over the guys head in the bar fight triggered an aneurism when you smashed it over their head because that would be punishing (or rewarding) intent.
Actually, I personally wouldn't mind if those distinctions were lifted and all cases of murder with intent to harm were proscecuted to the death penalty. A murder is a murder, whichever way you cut it, premeditated or no. You are depriving someone of their life. The end result of your action is the same.
Before I get too much further, I will point out a point that I feel I should clarify. When I said "When you levy an additional punishment for the intent of the crime" I'm not referring to an intent to murder or not, I'm referring to the intent to commit an act of violence because of some determining characteristic of the victim (Race, gender, sexual prefrence, etc.).
When you're pointing to murder 1, 2, or manslaughter, you're talking about something completely different than I am. Punishing the intent to murder is punishing someone for the intent to deprive a person of one of their three liberties - life, liberty and right to own property, not the motive for the murder. You don't punish a motive, you punish an act.
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So you seriously think that a person who sits in a room for six months planning on how to kill the black family next door to him because he wants to kill all the black people in the world should be treated the same as the guy who loses control of his car and hits another car killing the same black family? Or the guy who's heater's pilot light goes off and causes an explosion killing the family while he's out?
A) In the second and third cases, the only way to reasonably put down a murder charge is if there was gross negligance that lead to the deaths. If there is? Nail them. Souldn't be drinking and driving. The driver was doing something stupid that killed a family. Hang him. Public execution, have a bake sale. See how quickly the DUI rate drops after a few of those. The landlord refusing to fix a faulty gas system? Fuck him. Hang him. On national TV. With cheerleaders. See how quick you get your landlord out for a dangerous problem then. I'm telling you, capital punishment is a wonderful deterrant.
As for your 'a' response, you've taken a change of position. Whereas previously it was the effect of an action (a death), you're now saying that the crime was negligence, etc. Effectively, it's punishing a cause rather than, or along with the effect. In accident vs. intentional, the effect is the same (death), but the cause is different (intentional vs. unintentional). If that's your position, i'd like to know what you feel the differences are between 'intent', 'motive', and 'cause' of a murder. I think our actual disagreement lies in there
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No change of position, what I'm stating is that the motive is not the defining issue, nor should one motive carry a harsher or additional punishment than another. Whether a death occurs through the negligance of a person or a premeditated and planned killing, the result is the same - the murder of a human being.
Intent is the decision itself. "I'm going to do this."
Motive is why a person has the intent to do something. "I'm going to do this becauseI would prefer any and all deaths caused through provable action or negligant inaction, regardless of intent or motive, to be considered on the same level and punishable as such
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No change of position, what I'm stating is that the motive is not the defining issue, nor should one motive carry a harsher or additional punishment than another. Whether a death occurs through the negligance of a person or a premeditated and planned killing, the result is the same - the murder of a human being.
Intent is the decision itself. "I'm going to do this."
Motive is why a person has the intent to do something. "I'm going to do this becauseI would prefer any and all deaths caused through provable action or negligant inaction, regardless of intent or motive, to be considered on the same level and punishable as such
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I mean. The person is dead, right? Who cares if you planned their assassination for months, or just shot them when you saw them on your wife, or that bottle smashed over the guys head in the bar fight triggered an aneurism when you smashed it over their head because that would be punishing (or rewarding) intent.
Murder is murder, right? Equal treatment, right?
Reply
Before I get too much further, I will point out a point that I feel I should clarify. When I said "When you levy an additional punishment for the intent of the crime" I'm not referring to an intent to murder or not, I'm referring to the intent to commit an act of violence because of some determining characteristic of the victim (Race, gender, sexual prefrence, etc.).
When you're pointing to murder 1, 2, or manslaughter, you're talking about something completely different than I am. Punishing the intent to murder is punishing someone for the intent to deprive a person of one of their three liberties - life, liberty and right to own property, not the motive for the murder. You don't punish a motive, you punish an act. ( ... )
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Reply
A) In the second and third cases, the only way to reasonably put down a murder charge is if there was gross negligance that lead to the deaths. If there is? Nail them. Souldn't be drinking and driving. The driver was doing something stupid that killed a family. Hang him. Public execution, have a bake sale. See how quickly the DUI rate drops after a few of those. The landlord refusing to fix a faulty gas system? Fuck him. Hang him. On national TV. With cheerleaders. See how quick you get your landlord out for a dangerous problem then. I'm telling you, capital punishment is a wonderful deterrant.
B)It's committing a ( ... )
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Reply
Intent is the decision itself. "I'm going to do this."
Motive is why a person has the intent to do something. "I'm going to do this becauseI would prefer any and all deaths caused through provable action or negligant inaction, regardless of intent or motive, to be considered on the same level and punishable as such ( ... )
Reply
Intent is the decision itself. "I'm going to do this."
Motive is why a person has the intent to do something. "I'm going to do this becauseI would prefer any and all deaths caused through provable action or negligant inaction, regardless of intent or motive, to be considered on the same level and punishable as such ( ... )
Reply
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