So, I typically stay out of the big discussions from When Fangirls Attack simply because there's always a dozen people who are saying what I would say - but better. They do my job for me - it's nice
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Ah-HA! Now we are getting somewhere....
anonymous
June 26 2007, 08:28:30 UTC
"And I understand them wanting to change comics because they WANT to like them. I guess I am surprised it hasn’t happened yet for them. There must be some comics that are not sexist right? My guess is the girls want specific comics to fall in line because they like THOSE characters."
Exactly. It's not that there isn't any product being produced for female (or feminist, since some guys feel the same) readers. It's that "character X" from "publihser Y" isn't being written and marketed to "demographic Z" (or marketed exclusively to them, in the case of Mary Jane) that almost all of this outrage springs forth. It's all nonsense.
There is a TON of superhero comics that are produced every single month (and that's just ONE genre, which is excluding many others and their product). Granted, not all of them come from Marvel and DC, but even without them there is a huge amount of product out there looking to be read. You can see all those listing in the back of any month's Previews catalog. Have all the readers who are upset/fed up/insulted by the ways Marvel and DC pander to certain demographics tried out ALL those other titles, from other publishers, and simply haven't found any that worked?
Or, is it more likely, just as with that fanboy who won't stop buying the latest issue of that Marvel/DC series, no matter how crappy they think the work is, because they've been reading it for 20 years, are these self same readers complaining about the sexism in Marvel and DC's output continuing to buy these works, no matter how bad they are, instead of trying out some of the multitude of other superhero comics out there, from publishers OTHER than Marvel and DC, and voting with their dollars, which is really the only thing that ANY publisher listens to? And they wonder why Marvel and DC won't change?
If all the complainers put as much effort into looking for work they'd actually enjoyed (and, by proxy, drop the book that anger and frustrate them), as they do in their self-rightous blog essays decrying Marvel and DC for not being what THEY want them to be, prehaps the Big Two might actually be compelled to change. And not due to verbal lashings from a section of the audience who is still supporting these works they hate with endless free publicity, if not their actual dollars, but because of a concerted effort to cash in on the type of materials that is making the money the currently reviled stuff isn't bringing in anymore.
Instead, we get a weekly dance of well-meaning ranter blogging about what they hate from Marvel/DC THIS week, giving that work huges amounts of free publicity, and most likely buying it themselves (even if only so they can rip it apart verbally at length later), which stirs up others to do the same, mud is slung, people for and against the product are insulted by the other for days, a few people, both outside and within the comic culture, get a chuckle at the "geeky fools" bickering like old ladies, the publishers make their money, the distributor makes their money, reatilers make their money, nothing gets resolved, much less actually CHANGED, and we repeat the cycle again next week. And yet, the "speaking out" is labeled a "victory for feminism." If that is a what they think is a victory, I'd HATE to see what they'd consider a defeat.
Readers need to wise up. Screaming your head off isn't going to change anything. Never has and it never will. Actions will, like supporting works from publishers who's output you respect and enjoy. Using your blog to promote those works, instead of lashing out at the stuff you hate. Getting onboard with organizations, like P.O.W.E.R. in Comics, which are working to improve things in a POSITIVE way. And that's the key most fail to think about. You can't bring a POSITIVE change with NEGATIVE actions. Work towards making things better, by looking at your own bad habits (like buying work you know you'll hate and looking for things to anger you) and changing those. After that, you'll be able to come at the problem from the proper perspective.
And if you still need to "vent", scream into a pillow or punch the couch to let it out. Both of which can be done in the privacy of your own home and doesn't have you hanging out all your own personal hang-ups for all to see publicly.
This is me responding to things 100 million years latercommonboyJune 29 2007, 18:15:20 UTC
While you're unlikely to see my response (what with being an anony post), I figure I'll do so, anyway.
On the one hand, I completely agree that highlighting the positive doesn't happen nearly as often as it should. It's often way easier to rant about the negative - and it's great stress-relief. Often times, a vitriolic post is gonna be more amusing to read than a post of praise.
Certainly, spending your money on a comic just to find something in it that will piss you off is an...inadvisable? way to use your cash. I mean, if it has NO redeemable qualities to it, why give your money to them? If my years of internetting didn't color my expectations of humanity, I'd be tempted to call that a strawman. But sadly, I'm sure there are people who spend their money on things JUST to hate them. It's like people buying CD's just so they can destroy them at a CD Burning.
I don't know that I could advise people who are upset about the way X company has handled Y thing just shut up and not draw attention to it. I can't fathom telling someone, "Look, don't make a stink about Denny's new Cotton Pickin' Diversi-Fried Chicken and Watermelon Combo-Special. That'll be good for them - it's like free advertising. Instead, you should write to the paper about how tasty the new Double Decker Fishamajig is at Friendly's."
Exactly. It's not that there isn't any product being produced for female (or feminist, since some guys feel the same) readers. It's that "character X" from "publihser Y" isn't being written and marketed to "demographic Z" (or marketed exclusively to them, in the case of Mary Jane) that almost all of this outrage springs forth. It's all nonsense.
There is a TON of superhero comics that are produced every single month (and that's just ONE genre, which is excluding many others and their product). Granted, not all of them come from Marvel and DC, but even without them there is a huge amount of product out there looking to be read. You can see all those listing in the back of any month's Previews catalog. Have all the readers who are upset/fed up/insulted by the ways Marvel and DC pander to certain demographics tried out ALL those other titles, from other publishers, and simply haven't found any that worked?
Or, is it more likely, just as with that fanboy who won't stop buying the latest issue of that Marvel/DC series, no matter how crappy they think the work is, because they've been reading it for 20 years, are these self same readers complaining about the sexism in Marvel and DC's output continuing to buy these works, no matter how bad they are, instead of trying out some of the multitude of other superhero comics out there, from publishers OTHER than Marvel and DC, and voting with their dollars, which is really the only thing that ANY publisher listens to? And they wonder why Marvel and DC won't change?
If all the complainers put as much effort into looking for work they'd actually enjoyed (and, by proxy, drop the book that anger and frustrate them), as they do in their self-rightous blog essays decrying Marvel and DC for not being what THEY want them to be, prehaps the Big Two might actually be compelled to change. And not due to verbal lashings from a section of the audience who is still supporting these works they hate with endless free publicity, if not their actual dollars, but because of a concerted effort to cash in on the type of materials that is making the money the currently reviled stuff isn't bringing in anymore.
Instead, we get a weekly dance of well-meaning ranter blogging about what they hate from Marvel/DC THIS week, giving that work huges amounts of free publicity, and most likely buying it themselves (even if only so they can rip it apart verbally at length later), which stirs up others to do the same, mud is slung, people for and against the product are insulted by the other for days, a few people, both outside and within the comic culture, get a chuckle at the "geeky fools" bickering like old ladies, the publishers make their money, the distributor makes their money, reatilers make their money, nothing gets resolved, much less actually CHANGED, and we repeat the cycle again next week. And yet, the "speaking out" is labeled a "victory for feminism." If that is a what they think is a victory, I'd HATE to see what they'd consider a defeat.
Readers need to wise up. Screaming your head off isn't going to change anything. Never has and it never will. Actions will, like supporting works from publishers who's output you respect and enjoy. Using your blog to promote those works, instead of lashing out at the stuff you hate. Getting onboard with organizations, like P.O.W.E.R. in Comics, which are working to improve things in a POSITIVE way. And that's the key most fail to think about. You can't bring a POSITIVE change with NEGATIVE actions. Work towards making things better, by looking at your own bad habits (like buying work you know you'll hate and looking for things to anger you) and changing those. After that, you'll be able to come at the problem from the proper perspective.
And if you still need to "vent", scream into a pillow or punch the couch to let it out. Both of which can be done in the privacy of your own home and doesn't have you hanging out all your own personal hang-ups for all to see publicly.
Reply
On the one hand, I completely agree that highlighting the positive doesn't happen nearly as often as it should. It's often way easier to rant about the negative - and it's great stress-relief. Often times, a vitriolic post is gonna be more amusing to read than a post of praise.
Certainly, spending your money on a comic just to find something in it that will piss you off is an...inadvisable? way to use your cash. I mean, if it has NO redeemable qualities to it, why give your money to them? If my years of internetting didn't color my expectations of humanity, I'd be tempted to call that a strawman. But sadly, I'm sure there are people who spend their money on things JUST to hate them. It's like people buying CD's just so they can destroy them at a CD Burning.
I don't know that I could advise people who are upset about the way X company has handled Y thing just shut up and not draw attention to it. I can't fathom telling someone, "Look, don't make a stink about Denny's new Cotton Pickin' Diversi-Fried Chicken and Watermelon Combo-Special. That'll be good for them - it's like free advertising. Instead, you should write to the paper about how tasty the new Double Decker Fishamajig is at Friendly's."
Reply
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