sorry for butting in ;-) but just couldn't leave besn_143snApril 11 2010, 08:55:02 UTC
I sympathized with Sam last season, and I sympathize with Dean now....BUT I kinda do object to the part where you imply that everyone sympathized with Sam last season. As you said you are more of a self-proclaimed Dean!girl, so it might have slipped past your notice, but there was A LOT OF Sam hate last season, and even this season. And no, I did not see it where it wasn't there because I was getting defensive. I saw it because it was written pretty clearly in so much words, the same as it is being written about Dean now.....You probably notice it more now only cox the hate is about Dean....but I did see the hate then and I do see the hate even now and I disagree with the hate both times. Also, it aint about where you frequent...the hate existed not only in the flist and communities in lj, but also outside of lj in other sites, blogs etc
Saying that, it is true that the hate does put a tax on you and how much you enjoy the show. It hurts me to see Sam hate, and I don't like seeing Dean hate either. They are brothers but human above all. So it follows that they'd make mistakes and do stupid shit and love n hurt each other...AND THEY ARE NOT SELFLESS. Neither Sam nor Dean is above mistakes, they have both been at fault at times, but they both do what they do becox they believed in what they were doing. I agree about Lisa becox she is a symbol of the family he wants but doesn't think he deserves. Like he said, when he thinks about settling down it is with her. She has a kid that could totally be him minus 20 or so years and he had such a great time with her that he sought her out when they visited her town. Plus she featured in his guilty dreams.
ps: again sorry for the butt in. :) I usually leave be when I see a comment I disagree with, but lol I think m in an argumentative mood ^_^ go figure
Re: sorry for butting in ;-) but just couldn't leave bealbeitslowlyApril 11 2010, 13:15:47 UTC
No problem. I actually think we're both on the same wavelength as I should've chosen my words differently. I didn't mean to imply that everyone sympathized with Sam last season. I did see the hate and the bashing, and it was especially sad to see some of it from his fans. What I meant to say, I think, is that it seems like those who did sympathize with Sam last season, or at least came to his defense, don't seem willing to give Dean the same consideration. Fandom seems to like tit for tat instead of seeing that tat was probably so far off base it should never have been addressed at all. If that makes sense.
I also didn't mean to imply that anyone went looking for the hate to see it. I learned a long time ago to not read reaction posts, because there's always hate in them, ALWAYS. It doesn't matter how much I love an episode, if I read the reactions, I will grow to hate it. It just happens that I work a night job and dont' get to see the show when it airs, and when I'm desperate to know what happens, episode reactions are all I have available to me. So, I can't always stop myself from reading them. I don't go looking for the hate, but I find it anyway, and I only have myself to blame, because I know it's always there. I know the smart thing to do is not read these posts at all.
And it's just my opinion that everyone knows that's the best option, and a lot of the reason they do is because something about the episode strikes an emotional chord in them, so they override that logic and read the reactions anyway. If you're already emotional about something, another person's reactions are only going to add to it.
I haven't even posted an episode review since the beginning of the season, but I posted one about this episode, specifically as a reaction to the reactions. Now, how counterproductive is that?
But I will always take offense if two characters do pretty much the same things on different days but people will try to sympathize with one but condemn the other.
So, I totally get it. And I know my statement was far too general and easily misconstrued. But hey, people on my flist know how I lean. They could filter me out or choose other words if they don't want me to reply. People know by now that if they're not sympathetic to Dean, I will have to call them on it. It's just the way I fly. And for what it's worth, I never bashed or hated Sam either. I always tried to see where he was coming from. And even when I was feeling angry about his actions, I chose not to voice that anger rather than raise people's emotions to a higher level than they already were.
Re: sorry for butting in ;-) but just couldn't leave besn_143snApril 11 2010, 14:23:24 UTC
Seeing as you are retracting what you said, ya I'd say pretty much on same wavelength with minor differences of opinion. I'm a total Jared!girl, so goes that Sam hate posts hurt me....so I only read my flist reaction posts now, who are Sam lovers :) On the flip side, Dean is not on their fav list at the moment :(
Maybe I feel different cox despite being a Jared fanatic, I watch the show for the show. I don't know how else to explain it, but there are two shows I love, Dexter and Supernatural. And I LOVE the fact all the characters in these are so flawed...so human if you know what I mean.
I don't do review posts, and I'm pretty much someone who always enjoy all the episodes(well besides DeadMenDon'tWearPLaid) so m gonna go out on a limb and say that many who enjoyed the episodes don't make reviews and thus mostly only the mixed reviews come up for us to read...it's mostly human nature to talk about/expand on things we don't like rather than talk about what we like.
IMHO I think in general nothing in life is b&w. I see the flawed characters and I try to see from their point of view, and how they interpret certain situations and react to them bcox of where they are coming from, not how I think they should react or how I would if it was me....and then it makes total sense to me why they react that way. I'm not saying they are right, just that I can get why they reacted a certain way in a certain situation, no matter how stupid their reasoning. Sam n Dean come from the same family, but their experience of that life was totally different and how they think/react/feel is so different from each other and directly related to their own experience of their childhood.
I'm flogging up Anja's entry with my long-ass comments, so I'll stop here lol
As you said you are more of a self-proclaimed Dean!girl, so it might have slipped past your notice, but there was A LOT OF Sam hate last season, and even this season.
And no, I did not see it where it wasn't there because I was getting defensive. I saw it because it was written pretty clearly in so much words, the same as it is being written about Dean now.....You probably notice it more now only cox the hate is about Dean....but I did see the hate then and I do see the hate even now and I disagree with the hate both times.
Also, it aint about where you frequent...the hate existed not only in the flist and communities in lj, but also outside of lj in other sites, blogs etc
Saying that, it is true that the hate does put a tax on you and how much you enjoy the show. It hurts me to see Sam hate, and I don't like seeing Dean hate either.
They are brothers but human above all. So it follows that they'd make mistakes and do stupid shit and love n hurt each other...AND THEY ARE NOT SELFLESS. Neither Sam nor Dean is above mistakes, they have both been at fault at times, but they both do what they do becox they believed in what they were doing.
I agree about Lisa becox she is a symbol of the family he wants but doesn't think he deserves. Like he said, when he thinks about settling down it is with her. She has a kid that could totally be him minus 20 or so years and he had such a great time with her that he sought her out when they visited her town. Plus she featured in his guilty dreams.
ps: again sorry for the butt in. :)
I usually leave be when I see a comment I disagree with, but lol I think m in an argumentative mood ^_^ go figure
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I also didn't mean to imply that anyone went looking for the hate to see it. I learned a long time ago to not read reaction posts, because there's always hate in them, ALWAYS. It doesn't matter how much I love an episode, if I read the reactions, I will grow to hate it. It just happens that I work a night job and dont' get to see the show when it airs, and when I'm desperate to know what happens, episode reactions are all I have available to me. So, I can't always stop myself from reading them. I don't go looking for the hate, but I find it anyway, and I only have myself to blame, because I know it's always there. I know the smart thing to do is not read these posts at all.
And it's just my opinion that everyone knows that's the best option, and a lot of the reason they do is because something about the episode strikes an emotional chord in them, so they override that logic and read the reactions anyway. If you're already emotional about something, another person's reactions are only going to add to it.
I haven't even posted an episode review since the beginning of the season, but I posted one about this episode, specifically as a reaction to the reactions. Now, how counterproductive is that?
But I will always take offense if two characters do pretty much the same things on different days but people will try to sympathize with one but condemn the other.
So, I totally get it. And I know my statement was far too general and easily misconstrued. But hey, people on my flist know how I lean. They could filter me out or choose other words if they don't want me to reply. People know by now that if they're not sympathetic to Dean, I will have to call them on it. It's just the way I fly. And for what it's worth, I never bashed or hated Sam either. I always tried to see where he was coming from. And even when I was feeling angry about his actions, I chose not to voice that anger rather than raise people's emotions to a higher level than they already were.
Reply
I'm a total Jared!girl, so goes that Sam hate posts hurt me....so I only read my flist reaction posts now, who are Sam lovers :)
On the flip side, Dean is not on their fav list at the moment :(
Maybe I feel different cox despite being a Jared fanatic, I watch the show for the show. I don't know how else to explain it, but there are two shows I love, Dexter and Supernatural. And I LOVE the fact all the characters in these are so flawed...so human if you know what I mean.
I don't do review posts, and I'm pretty much someone who always enjoy all the episodes(well besides DeadMenDon'tWearPLaid) so m gonna go out on a limb and say that many who enjoyed the episodes don't make reviews and thus mostly only the mixed reviews come up for us to read...it's mostly human nature to talk about/expand on things we don't like rather than talk about what we like.
IMHO I think in general nothing in life is b&w.
I see the flawed characters and I try to see from their point of view, and how they interpret certain situations and react to them bcox of where they are coming from, not how I think they should react or how I would if it was me....and then it makes total sense to me why they react that way. I'm not saying they are right, just that I can get why they reacted a certain way in a certain situation, no matter how stupid their reasoning. Sam n Dean come from the same family, but their experience of that life was totally different and how they think/react/feel is so different from each other and directly related to their own experience of their childhood.
I'm flogging up Anja's entry with my long-ass comments, so I'll stop here lol
Reply
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