YES! To the point of stupidity! It's like he doesn't know where to draw the line. But then again, should he? Or could he? Will he be able to live with himself knowing he could have saved millions and chose not to? :\
Haha, Chairon thought wriggling out of such a thing would be the most logical result. I guess it shows that C isn't stupid? :P Funny how when places are reserved, C becomes a douchebag, but if Z were to do the same, he would be "not stupid" instead.
Wait--the horrible thing is that Chairon will turn good? XD Hey, who knows, maybe that will save Evelynn from future suicide attempts! Maybe Zaelem's sacrifice wasn't in vain after all. It managed to turn someone good. ;)
Exactly! Evelynn is too much of a romantic. She believe in fate and fairytales. (Kay definitely doesn't. ;) Hmm, so maybe she isn't such a kid, huh.) She believed Chairon is supposed to be her destined prince charming, but I guess her suicide attempt showed that she has sort of given up? Yet giving up on C equals to giving up on life, it seemed. :\
Ah, but I kind of think that Zaelem actively chose to accept his duty. ;) I'm thinking it was more of "I should" instead of "I don't have a choice".
Well, in this case, Z was set up with the impossible... if it were Chairon, since he probably wouldn't have been set up (and because I doubt Chairon would ever be picked for something with such cataclysmic, last-ditch chances of succeeding) and since the reasoning would be more along the lines of "I don't want to do this" than "there's no way for me to succeed," it becomes a bit of a different problem.
Yeah, but the way it played out, there was no chance of him succeeding, and the council got rushed through to agree to a pretty crappy plan. Then again, Zaelem wouldn't be Zaelem if he could make the detatched analysis of his chances that would lead him to the conclusion that running blindly into this situation wasn't going to work.
C isn't stupid. Self-deluding certainly, but not stupid. Oh, and his douchebag-ness comes from many factors. :D
No, the horrible thing is that this is the only time he's been able to realize that he's been a massive, evil, arrogant, entitled douchebag and actually feel some form of guilt about it. And now there's nothing he can do to fix what he's done. It's the first time he's ever thought in terms not just of getting what he wants, but the impact that his actions have on people who aren't him. His problem is he doesn't think of other people as people, he thinks of them as ways to get his way, even the ones (Kismette) that he supposedly loves or the ones (Zaelem) who are his supposed best friends.
The horrible thing is that it took the death of his old friend and training buddy, essentially at his hands, for him to ever take one modicum of responsibility for anything or feel any sort of guilt. It's that yeah, that should have been a life-changing event that might make him try to be a somewhat decent person, but it's already too late to repair any damage that he's caused. His only shot at redemption is eclipsed by his own evil actions. (Forgive me for phrasing that oddly the first time. A redeemed [partially] Chairon isn't a bad thing, it's just that it was a real gut-puncher that he only reached a redeemable point when it became obvious that he might not be redeemable because of how much damage he's done.)
I feel like Kay believed in fairy tales, but she didn't believe in being the princess. I imagine Kay always identified with the woodcutter's daughter in the ones where she goes out and rescues some prince from being a raven or something. Basically, Evelynn lets people make her decisions for her, while Kay makes her own decisions. Kismette has her 'romantic' and innocent moments, but she never lets anybody determine her fate. Evelynn, who was superficially the responsible and mature and sophisitcated one earlier, has never really learned to steer her own life. And that's sad, especially when giving up on your (imaginary) prince charming means that there's nothing to live for. She has demonstrated again and again that she mostly has illusions of the people to whom she entrusts her decisions, thinking of them more as how she thinks they should be than how they are.
Maybe it was the death of her illusions (not just about Chairon, but about her life, her role in it, and Quasjedan society as well) that meant that she had nothing to live for?
Now, see, I think he thought about it and he didn't think "I don't have a choice," he thought about it and he didn't even think about the possibility of having a choice. I think (I'm not going to go back, but I sort of remember a line supporting it,) that what he essentially thought was "I have to" and not "I should." Thinking about not having a choice would imply him thinking that in other circumstances he might have been able to get out of it, but that something else compels him to do it. Here, it's him thinking that he has to do it, and it's his own sense of honor (not even considering not doing it in any depth) that is compelling him to do it.
Hahaha, poor Chairon. How about "I don't want to do it because it's impossible to succeed"? :P Ah, I'm just making everything complicated. But to say that he is unredeemable would be too harsh, ain't it? What if he truly knows his mistakes at last and tries to make up for it in different ways? Even if it cost a life, wouldn't the act of trying to redeem himself make him redeemable already? :)
(LOL@ Zaelem wouldn't be him if he could make detached analysis! XD)
I think you're spot on about Evelynn. (*gasp* You pinpoint her traits so much better than I can it's like you know my characters better than I do! :O :O :O) It's so true: losing the things that she held on to so strongly to made her lose her sense of purpose in life as well, and being blinded by them (unable to see anything else) meant she had nothing else to live for. :( Oh, but there is one thing she fought for: keeping her child when Annie confronted her to abort it. (She values the child more as a special connection with Chairon rather than as her precious baby, though. How sad is that?)
I believe that Kismette, on the other hand, threw 'romantism' away after realising how love works and after deciding to break up with Chairon. It doesn't mean that she no longer behave romantically when in love (i.e. do things like snuggle up, say sweet-nothings), but rather that she no longer believes in things like Prince Charmings and magical endings. Hmm.. I'm not sure I'm explaining that properly. But that's my view anyway. :P
And I guess that brings us back to the point of him being honourable to the point of stupidity, eh? XD Yes, it's his sense of honour that compels him to do it, but shouldn't he have thought about how silly it is? How the impossibility of it made is a total waste of effort in the first place? (Which comes back in a circle of whether he will be able to live with himself if he did not do it, lol! What a mess!)
Yeah, not wanting to do it because it's impossible (rather than merely kind of dangerous) would be a perfectly acceptable decision. I'm not saying Charion's unredeemable, but that even though he reached the moment where he should have started on the road to redemption, his chances are kind of low now that Zaelem's dead. Clearly he doesn't have enough of a connection with either of the girls for them to influence him towards becoming a better person.
You've gotta remember, I've been following your pixel people since you had about six chapters up - and over three (gasp - is it three years already?) years of talking to you helps me know where they're coming from. Plus, audiences tend to summarize better than the people who know what's coming up. ;)
I agree: Evelynn did have a very strong moment going against the abortion, but it's sad that she never got to have a connection with her baby as a person rather than a vague idea that got her into the Vikien family. Evelynn's illusions of people shatter very, very badly.
Well... you can still see that Kismette has some romantic notions, but she's been through a lot of disillusionment and she doesn't let those tendencies drive her anymore. After meeting her mother and breaking up with Chairon I think she realized that if she was going to have a happy ending, she was going to have to make it: finding her mother wouldn't magically guarantee happiness any more than being with 'prince charming' would. With Zaelem, both of them had to work towards happiness. Unfortunately, Zaelem's knight-in-shining-armor tendencies made that not last for very long. Honestly, though, I don't see him reacting in any other way, because although both of them have decided to make their own paths in life, Zaelem has had much longer for his ways of thinking to become fixed in place and immovable. And as long as there was a chance that it could work and it would save Quasjeda, I don't think he could have lived with himself if he refused. Plus, I think the plan appealed to him because it didn't have massive casualties. He was thinking that if he killed the king and died, that was only two deaths to end a war that could slaughter thousands. Chairon would have had a really hard time comprehending the idea of thousands of innocent lives at risk, but he did understand that his actions had caused the death of someone he'd once called a friend. But we've seen how much he values lives he doesn't know personally since he first suggested that Kismette be killed for her magic. (Which is why I've always said that he's never thought of her as a complete human being - he's thought of her in terms of how useful she is or how much he wants to get in her pants, but he still hasn't grasped the concept of all other humans having rights that sometimes outweigh his own. This is also why I think he'd never have accepted that mission or thought for a moment that Zaelem wouldn't refuse what could only lead to his death: he doesn't understand that people don't think the same way he does or have the same values.)
*gasp* OMG three years?? I only just realised I haven't been celebrating CS's birthdays!! *flails arms* Ah, you seem to be able to guess what's gonna happen pretty well anyway. ;)
I started giggling at "Chairon would have had a really hard time comprehending the idea of thousands of innocent lives at risk". It sounded like he was a 2-year-old, hahaha! It's true though; Jeremy once commented on how callous Chairon is. "The sanctity of human lives, Ronny!" XD Hmm, I think he truly enjoyed dating Kismette because she was bubbly and a joy to be with, but it's just that he also recognised the perks of just being with her (reputation, family standing, etc), which was a wrong move for him to list out during their breakup. I insist that he really did love her, more so than he did any other of the girls her previously dated. :P
Aah, that last bit said it very well: he doesn't understand that people don't think the same way he does or have the same values. Such an apt description of him! :X He has always been too self-centered, and I guess it's this revelation that shocked him (that Zaelem didn't choose the option he had expected to) and made him see things so differently now. :)
Well, you can love someone and still be able to list to yourselves the reasons why dating them is a good thing aside from being in love. (Explanation fail.) He still didn't have the perspective to work out that loving her meant that he had to take her feelings into account, but of course he doesn't believe that anyone could possibly have different values as him, part of the reason why he wouldn't understand why Kismette didn't want to have sex when he clearly did.
It's true, though. He's been spoiled into a toddler's view of the world, thinking that he can communicate effectively with the words "no" and "mine!" Also, he does pitch a bit of a fit from time to time and he doesn't share well. ;)
I guess he did try to improve in terms of being a better partner; it's just that, to us (or according to the norm), they were just baby steps and still didn't fit into our criteria of loving somebody. So even though it still wasn't good enough, to him, he was already so much more sacrificial and etc, which made him angry, I guess. For once, he actually worked hard for something, yet got the opposite result. :\
HAHAHAHA!!! A toddler's view of the world! Oh, he definitely doesn't share well. ;P
Like one of my math teachers in high school always said: "You don't get points for trying unless I can tell that you really did do the work."
Chairon thinks he's getting better, but he's nowhere near solving that equation yet. Sure, he took a few steps. Overall, they didn't help, and he doesn't see that yet, I guess.
Haha, Chairon thought wriggling out of such a thing would be the most logical result. I guess it shows that C isn't stupid? :P Funny how when places are reserved, C becomes a douchebag, but if Z were to do the same, he would be "not stupid" instead.
Wait--the horrible thing is that Chairon will turn good? XD Hey, who knows, maybe that will save Evelynn from future suicide attempts! Maybe Zaelem's sacrifice wasn't in vain after all. It managed to turn someone good. ;)
Exactly! Evelynn is too much of a romantic. She believe in fate and fairytales. (Kay definitely doesn't. ;) Hmm, so maybe she isn't such a kid, huh.) She believed Chairon is supposed to be her destined prince charming, but I guess her suicide attempt showed that she has sort of given up? Yet giving up on C equals to giving up on life, it seemed. :\
Ah, but I kind of think that Zaelem actively chose to accept his duty. ;) I'm thinking it was more of "I should" instead of "I don't have a choice".
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Yeah, but the way it played out, there was no chance of him succeeding, and the council got rushed through to agree to a pretty crappy plan. Then again, Zaelem wouldn't be Zaelem if he could make the detatched analysis of his chances that would lead him to the conclusion that running blindly into this situation wasn't going to work.
C isn't stupid. Self-deluding certainly, but not stupid. Oh, and his douchebag-ness comes from many factors. :D
No, the horrible thing is that this is the only time he's been able to realize that he's been a massive, evil, arrogant, entitled douchebag and actually feel some form of guilt about it. And now there's nothing he can do to fix what he's done. It's the first time he's ever thought in terms not just of getting what he wants, but the impact that his actions have on people who aren't him. His problem is he doesn't think of other people as people, he thinks of them as ways to get his way, even the ones (Kismette) that he supposedly loves or the ones (Zaelem) who are his supposed best friends.
The horrible thing is that it took the death of his old friend and training buddy, essentially at his hands, for him to ever take one modicum of responsibility for anything or feel any sort of guilt. It's that yeah, that should have been a life-changing event that might make him try to be a somewhat decent person, but it's already too late to repair any damage that he's caused. His only shot at redemption is eclipsed by his own evil actions. (Forgive me for phrasing that oddly the first time. A redeemed [partially] Chairon isn't a bad thing, it's just that it was a real gut-puncher that he only reached a redeemable point when it became obvious that he might not be redeemable because of how much damage he's done.)
I feel like Kay believed in fairy tales, but she didn't believe in being the princess. I imagine Kay always identified with the woodcutter's daughter in the ones where she goes out and rescues some prince from being a raven or something. Basically, Evelynn lets people make her decisions for her, while Kay makes her own decisions. Kismette has her 'romantic' and innocent moments, but she never lets anybody determine her fate. Evelynn, who was superficially the responsible and mature and sophisitcated one earlier, has never really learned to steer her own life. And that's sad, especially when giving up on your (imaginary) prince charming means that there's nothing to live for. She has demonstrated again and again that she mostly has illusions of the people to whom she entrusts her decisions, thinking of them more as how she thinks they should be than how they are.
Maybe it was the death of her illusions (not just about Chairon, but about her life, her role in it, and Quasjedan society as well) that meant that she had nothing to live for?
Now, see, I think he thought about it and he didn't think "I don't have a choice," he thought about it and he didn't even think about the possibility of having a choice. I think (I'm not going to go back, but I sort of remember a line supporting it,) that what he essentially thought was "I have to" and not "I should." Thinking about not having a choice would imply him thinking that in other circumstances he might have been able to get out of it, but that something else compels him to do it. Here, it's him thinking that he has to do it, and it's his own sense of honor (not even considering not doing it in any depth) that is compelling him to do it.
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(LOL@ Zaelem wouldn't be him if he could make detached analysis! XD)
I think you're spot on about Evelynn. (*gasp* You pinpoint her traits so much better than I can it's like you know my characters better than I do! :O :O :O) It's so true: losing the things that she held on to so strongly to made her lose her sense of purpose in life as well, and being blinded by them (unable to see anything else) meant she had nothing else to live for. :( Oh, but there is one thing she fought for: keeping her child when Annie confronted her to abort it. (She values the child more as a special connection with Chairon rather than as her precious baby, though. How sad is that?)
I believe that Kismette, on the other hand, threw 'romantism' away after realising how love works and after deciding to break up with Chairon. It doesn't mean that she no longer behave romantically when in love (i.e. do things like snuggle up, say sweet-nothings), but rather that she no longer believes in things like Prince Charmings and magical endings. Hmm.. I'm not sure I'm explaining that properly. But that's my view anyway. :P
And I guess that brings us back to the point of him being honourable to the point of stupidity, eh? XD Yes, it's his sense of honour that compels him to do it, but shouldn't he have thought about how silly it is? How the impossibility of it made is a total waste of effort in the first place? (Which comes back in a circle of whether he will be able to live with himself if he did not do it, lol! What a mess!)
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You've gotta remember, I've been following your pixel people since you had about six chapters up - and over three (gasp - is it three years already?) years of talking to you helps me know where they're coming from. Plus, audiences tend to summarize better than the people who know what's coming up. ;)
I agree: Evelynn did have a very strong moment going against the abortion, but it's sad that she never got to have a connection with her baby as a person rather than a vague idea that got her into the Vikien family. Evelynn's illusions of people shatter very, very badly.
Well... you can still see that Kismette has some romantic notions, but she's been through a lot of disillusionment and she doesn't let those tendencies drive her anymore. After meeting her mother and breaking up with Chairon I think she realized that if she was going to have a happy ending, she was going to have to make it: finding her mother wouldn't magically guarantee happiness any more than being with 'prince charming' would. With Zaelem, both of them had to work towards happiness. Unfortunately, Zaelem's knight-in-shining-armor tendencies made that not last for very long. Honestly, though, I don't see him reacting in any other way, because although both of them have decided to make their own paths in life, Zaelem has had much longer for his ways of thinking to become fixed in place and immovable. And as long as there was a chance that it could work and it would save Quasjeda, I don't think he could have lived with himself if he refused. Plus, I think the plan appealed to him because it didn't have massive casualties. He was thinking that if he killed the king and died, that was only two deaths to end a war that could slaughter thousands. Chairon would have had a really hard time comprehending the idea of thousands of innocent lives at risk, but he did understand that his actions had caused the death of someone he'd once called a friend. But we've seen how much he values lives he doesn't know personally since he first suggested that Kismette be killed for her magic. (Which is why I've always said that he's never thought of her as a complete human being - he's thought of her in terms of how useful she is or how much he wants to get in her pants, but he still hasn't grasped the concept of all other humans having rights that sometimes outweigh his own. This is also why I think he'd never have accepted that mission or thought for a moment that Zaelem wouldn't refuse what could only lead to his death: he doesn't understand that people don't think the same way he does or have the same values.)
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I started giggling at "Chairon would have had a really hard time comprehending the idea of thousands of innocent lives at risk". It sounded like he was a 2-year-old, hahaha! It's true though; Jeremy once commented on how callous Chairon is. "The sanctity of human lives, Ronny!" XD Hmm, I think he truly enjoyed dating Kismette because she was bubbly and a joy to be with, but it's just that he also recognised the perks of just being with her (reputation, family standing, etc), which was a wrong move for him to list out during their breakup. I insist that he really did love her, more so than he did any other of the girls her previously dated. :P
Aah, that last bit said it very well: he doesn't understand that people don't think the same way he does or have the same values. Such an apt description of him! :X He has always been too self-centered, and I guess it's this revelation that shocked him (that Zaelem didn't choose the option he had expected to) and made him see things so differently now. :)
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It's true, though. He's been spoiled into a toddler's view of the world, thinking that he can communicate effectively with the words "no" and "mine!" Also, he does pitch a bit of a fit from time to time and he doesn't share well. ;)
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HAHAHAHA!!! A toddler's view of the world! Oh, he definitely doesn't share well. ;P
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"You don't get points for trying unless I can tell that you really did do the work."
Chairon thinks he's getting better, but he's nowhere near solving that equation yet. Sure, he took a few steps. Overall, they didn't help, and he doesn't see that yet, I guess.
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