*big eyes* I still very much wanna read this, by the way. If you feel like writing it, that is!
It will be so boring for you! I don't have anything to say you haven't already covered. But I will try, just in hopes of getting more people to watch show and talk about it with me.
I love your S1 Arrow post. (Well, okay, I love all your Arrow posts.)
(fer serious, Colton Haynes used to be an actual trufax Abercrombie and Fitch model.)
I did not know that! Those lines make much more sense now. I mean, sure, he looks like an Abercrombie & Fitch model, but it's not a helpful description to offer someone at a vintage clothing store.
*nods* I'm on the same boat. Ditto on how bitter and jaded Laurel would be more in KC's wheelhouse. For the first few eps of S2, I actually thought they were going to keep Laurel as an antagonist to Arrow this season and thought that might be interesting, although her motivations (the whole blaming Arrow for Tommy's death part) were rubbish.
I'm starting to get a sense of what the show wants to do with Laurel, or I think I am. They want to do an origin story for that has the same slow build-up they're giving Oliver, where there's a drastic difference between pre-crisis Laurel and post-crisis Laurel, but we see that the change is long and hard. It's just that they've sacrificed so much of her potential character development to Destined Love. Especially the wavering between "I hate you, you cheated on me, and you killed my sister" and "But I sense that you are different in your soul". In his relationships with Felicity and Diggle, when Oliver crosses a moral line or fails the responsibilities of friendship, they walk out. They hold him accountable. They eventually go back, but it feels like more than lip service, possibly because of the build-up, and possibly he gives in. He changes in response to their demands. Whereas with Laurel, they keep bouncing off each other because he's not making any changes in response to her and she's forced to go back to him because Destiny. Even when he stops playing around and goes to her at the end of Season 1, it's not because of anything Laurel says -- it's because of what he finds out about his father's hopes for him. The whole thing would have worked better if they'd let Laurel be as consistently angry and hostile as she should have been.
And if they'd cast someone who had sexual chemistry with Stephen Amell.
They tried BoP TV show 10 years ago and it sank like a rock.
I know. (Should I watch it?) But, as you say, the environment is different now. And I would really like to see a superhero show or movie led by women.
But I will try, just in hopes of getting more people to watch show and talk about it with me.
Yes, yes! I have all this new fannishness and no outlet (*makes a sadface at not being able to write fic or vid*) and I feel like this show could be fannish catnip if only people gave it a chance, you know? I wish the fandom was bigger and more people I know and like are putting out thinky thoughts about it. Instead, I have to resign myself to trolling AV Club comment section (... I know) and moping around Tumblr looking at GIFs when what I really want is *discussion*.
Have I mentioned how glad I am that you started watching this show? SO GLAD.
They want to do an origin story for that has the same slow build-up they're giving Oliver, where there's a drastic difference between pre-crisis Laurel and post-crisis Laurel
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm beginning to think that its flashback structure is a huge boon to this show. I KNOW. I've whined so much about it! But yeah, it IS important to see that gradual transformation, and the flashbacks allow us to see both the man Oliver has become and what it took for him to get there. The old!Oliver was such a dickhead that we really don't want to spend time with him, but seeing his transformed self side-by-side gives the Oliver scenes on the island context. Same thing with Sara. It's hard to sympathize with Sara when we first hear about her, but once we meet the present day Sara and hear about how she's been destroyed and remade, we want to know how it happened, and we're emotionally involved in the process. But with Laurel, all this downward spiral -- it is not fun to see, and it drags and feels like it's without purpose. And since we have no idea when risen-from-ashes badass Laurel is going to emerge, it just feels like a slog to see this miserable, misguided character floundering around hopelessly with no end in sight.
"But I sense that you are different in your soul".
Oh, blech. Yeah, that was just irritating. The whole destined love thing is such a cheap short-cut. It's all tell, no show (compared to Oliver's relationship with Dig and Felicity, where we witness the progression of their relationship step by step). No wonder the episode in S1 in which Ollie sleeps with Laurel because he thinks he's fulfilled his promise to his father felt like such a regression.
And if they'd cast someone who had sexual chemistry with Stephen Amell.
.... yeah. Poor Katie Cassidy! You know you are in trouble when your leading man has more questionable chemistry with the actress who plays his *sister* than the one who plays the designated love interest.
I know. (Should I watch it?)
Heh, I never actually watched it, so I can't give you any informed opinion. I only know that less than half a season was shown before it was unceremoniously cancelled. I think it's out on DVD.
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm beginning to think that its flashback structure is a huge boon to this show. I KNOW. I've whined so much about it!
It starts working much better at the end of S1, though. And it's working really well in S2. It helps that the flashbacks now have plot relevance as well as emotional relevance, and that we're getting flashbacks from multiple POVs. I mean, sure, it's mostly Oliver, but we also get Sara and Slade, and that episode with the flashbacks to just before the voyage, which is probably still my favorite. I'm looking forward to getting a Slade-focused flashback which differs radically from Oliver's POV; I'm hoping they do the breakup/Slade finding out about Oliver's "betrayal" from Slade's POV.
One of the heartbreaking things about the flashback structure: you know that Sara breaks free of Ivo only to end up in an even more abusive situation with the League of Assassins. Oh, Sara. :( (Another thing about the break with Ivo -- it's over his murder of another woman, which is another link to her focus on defending women in Starling.)
Poor Katie Cassidy! You know you are in trouble when your leading man has more questionable chemistry with the actress who plays his *sister* than the one who plays the designated love interest.
Although -- now I am thinking about Alexis Denisoff and Amy Acker. Wesley and Fred: anti-chemistry, please kill this storyline, show, you're hurting me. Wesley and Illyria: SMOKIN', PLEASE CONTINUE. Beatrice and Benedick: not great, but okay.
So maybe Cassidy and Amell would have chemistry if they were playing completely different characters. Which brings me back to: The writing for Laurel has been so bad.
It will be so boring for you! I don't have anything to say you haven't already covered. But I will try, just in hopes of getting more people to watch show and talk about it with me.
I love your S1 Arrow post. (Well, okay, I love all your Arrow posts.)
(fer serious, Colton Haynes used to be an actual trufax Abercrombie and Fitch model.)
I did not know that! Those lines make much more sense now. I mean, sure, he looks like an Abercrombie & Fitch model, but it's not a helpful description to offer someone at a vintage clothing store.
*nods* I'm on the same boat. Ditto on how bitter and jaded Laurel would be more in KC's wheelhouse. For the first few eps of S2, I actually thought they were going to keep Laurel as an antagonist to Arrow this season and thought that might be interesting, although her motivations (the whole blaming Arrow for Tommy's death part) were rubbish.
I'm starting to get a sense of what the show wants to do with Laurel, or I think I am. They want to do an origin story for that has the same slow build-up they're giving Oliver, where there's a drastic difference between pre-crisis Laurel and post-crisis Laurel, but we see that the change is long and hard. It's just that they've sacrificed so much of her potential character development to Destined Love. Especially the wavering between "I hate you, you cheated on me, and you killed my sister" and "But I sense that you are different in your soul". In his relationships with Felicity and Diggle, when Oliver crosses a moral line or fails the responsibilities of friendship, they walk out. They hold him accountable. They eventually go back, but it feels like more than lip service, possibly because of the build-up, and possibly he gives in. He changes in response to their demands. Whereas with Laurel, they keep bouncing off each other because he's not making any changes in response to her and she's forced to go back to him because Destiny. Even when he stops playing around and goes to her at the end of Season 1, it's not because of anything Laurel says -- it's because of what he finds out about his father's hopes for him. The whole thing would have worked better if they'd let Laurel be as consistently angry and hostile as she should have been.
And if they'd cast someone who had sexual chemistry with Stephen Amell.
They tried BoP TV show 10 years ago and it sank like a rock.
I know. (Should I watch it?) But, as you say, the environment is different now. And I would really like to see a superhero show or movie led by women.
Reply
Yes, yes! I have all this new fannishness and no outlet (*makes a sadface at not being able to write fic or vid*) and I feel like this show could be fannish catnip if only people gave it a chance, you know? I wish the fandom was bigger and more people I know and like are putting out thinky thoughts about it. Instead, I have to resign myself to trolling AV Club comment section (... I know) and moping around Tumblr looking at GIFs when what I really want is *discussion*.
Have I mentioned how glad I am that you started watching this show? SO GLAD.
They want to do an origin story for that has the same slow build-up they're giving Oliver, where there's a drastic difference between pre-crisis Laurel and post-crisis Laurel
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm beginning to think that its flashback structure is a huge boon to this show. I KNOW. I've whined so much about it! But yeah, it IS important to see that gradual transformation, and the flashbacks allow us to see both the man Oliver has become and what it took for him to get there. The old!Oliver was such a dickhead that we really don't want to spend time with him, but seeing his transformed self side-by-side gives the Oliver scenes on the island context. Same thing with Sara. It's hard to sympathize with Sara when we first hear about her, but once we meet the present day Sara and hear about how she's been destroyed and remade, we want to know how it happened, and we're emotionally involved in the process. But with Laurel, all this downward spiral -- it is not fun to see, and it drags and feels like it's without purpose. And since we have no idea when risen-from-ashes badass Laurel is going to emerge, it just feels like a slog to see this miserable, misguided character floundering around hopelessly with no end in sight.
"But I sense that you are different in your soul".
Oh, blech. Yeah, that was just irritating. The whole destined love thing is such a cheap short-cut. It's all tell, no show (compared to Oliver's relationship with Dig and Felicity, where we witness the progression of their relationship step by step). No wonder the episode in S1 in which Ollie sleeps with Laurel because he thinks he's fulfilled his promise to his father felt like such a regression.
And if they'd cast someone who had sexual chemistry with Stephen Amell.
.... yeah. Poor Katie Cassidy! You know you are in trouble when your leading man has more questionable chemistry with the actress who plays his *sister* than the one who plays the designated love interest.
I know. (Should I watch it?)
Heh, I never actually watched it, so I can't give you any informed opinion. I only know that less than half a season was shown before it was unceremoniously cancelled. I think it's out on DVD.
Reply
It starts working much better at the end of S1, though. And it's working really well in S2. It helps that the flashbacks now have plot relevance as well as emotional relevance, and that we're getting flashbacks from multiple POVs. I mean, sure, it's mostly Oliver, but we also get Sara and Slade, and that episode with the flashbacks to just before the voyage, which is probably still my favorite. I'm looking forward to getting a Slade-focused flashback which differs radically from Oliver's POV; I'm hoping they do the breakup/Slade finding out about Oliver's "betrayal" from Slade's POV.
One of the heartbreaking things about the flashback structure: you know that Sara breaks free of Ivo only to end up in an even more abusive situation with the League of Assassins. Oh, Sara. :( (Another thing about the break with Ivo -- it's over his murder of another woman, which is another link to her focus on defending women in Starling.)
Poor Katie Cassidy! You know you are in trouble when your leading man has more questionable chemistry with the actress who plays his *sister* than the one who plays the designated love interest.
Although -- now I am thinking about Alexis Denisoff and Amy Acker. Wesley and Fred: anti-chemistry, please kill this storyline, show, you're hurting me. Wesley and Illyria: SMOKIN', PLEASE CONTINUE. Beatrice and Benedick: not great, but okay.
So maybe Cassidy and Amell would have chemistry if they were playing completely different characters. Which brings me back to: The writing for Laurel has been so bad.
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