Yes, I quite agree that such tactics as the Sindar would have developed would be different from those of the Noldor. I haven't really sat down and thought about how much those safe behind the Girdle would have had to deal with Orcs before, I admit; possibly I'm downgrading the amount of contact there would have been there. How much does a warden creeping through the shadows of Melian's Girdle need to really worry about Orcs or other enemies? The disappearance of the Girdle changed everything; and the Naugrim sack would have been really traumatic, because those who could have fought would have done - thereby increasing their chances of getting killed. So Dior has Oropher's Green-elves; he has some experienced people like Celeborn and Erestor and Melinna; most of his forces are inexperienced Sindar; he has the advantage of knowing the ground and the mere fact that he's fighting for his home. But the opposition is tough, wild and has been fighting Orcs on a relatively regular basis for the last four hundred years or so.
On the other hand, the Noldor have recently lost that Very Serious battle, plus their kingdoms - that must have done something horrible to their morale, they're no longer at full strength, whatever that might have been, and they're very much on unfamiliar ground. Plus (this I'm brushing over very lightly) I'm keeping back Maedhros, the stray brothers and a decent number of their men in the woods, holding the exit clear against Oropher's missing patrols and the woodland Sindar - and as you say, the Sindar and also the Green-elves have a massive advantage out there. So they can't take anything for granted.
Dior's age, well, I think it would have been silver enough, given a enough time to rebuild. Dior himself did well enough with Beren against the Dwarves, and that can't have been an easy fight. But it wasn't. Poor Dior. :'(
I haven't really sat down and thought about how much those safe behind the Girdle would have had to deal with Orcs before, I admit; possibly I'm downgrading the amount of contact there would have been there. How much does a warden creeping through the shadows of Melian's Girdle need to really worry about Orcs or other enemies?
My guess is: heavily, but not frequently. Before the establishing the Girdle, well, they were simply vulnerable, untli they were well armed and in a great number of trained warriors, therefore ready to -- as you said partially -- win the battle.
Then, they had to learn how to deal with the Girdle, I think they had to learn how to move around it -- after all not every one of them was a seasoned border guard or an expert hunter to begin with.
I said "heavily", because I think they dealt with the orcs more by the times of the battles -- sometimes massively, but other times the borders were fairly safe when guarded by both the guardians and the Girdle, and only those more adventurous met the orcs in great numbers (like Beleg and the axe-armed squad in Brethil, or Beleg and Mablung in the Nirnaeth). After the death of Thingol -- probably it required to tripple the patrols around Doriath, and that wasn't enough, as we know.
Ha! :D I'm back home from work, can you tell? Btw, I'm gearing myself up to writing a story about the Sindar with axes in Brethil -- the bunny has been insistent ;)
Ah, now that all makes sense. The other thing I hadn't thought about was how much the inhabitants of Doriath wanted or needed to pass the Girdle, except of course for the odd exceptional adventure like the big Noldorin gathering in the early days, or Nirnaeth Arnoediad, or the Turin episode.
I'm slightly handicapped here because I don't like the tale of Turin Turambar, so I'm not particularly well-informed about that episode or indeed that part of the world. Also while most of my more serious stories link back somehow to the fall of Doriath, I'm not dealing with Doriath or the Sindar in any particularly coherent or systematic way, so I tend to pick up different aspects at different times. And that means I have gaps in my canon-knowledge, depending on what's relevant to any given story.
Anyway - Sindar and axes in Brethil? Time for me to go reread Turin... :D
Yes, I quite agree that such tactics as the Sindar would have developed would be different from those of the Noldor. I haven't really sat down and thought about how much those safe behind the Girdle would have had to deal with Orcs before, I admit; possibly I'm downgrading the amount of contact there would have been there. How much does a warden creeping through the shadows of Melian's Girdle need to really worry about Orcs or other enemies? The disappearance of the Girdle changed everything; and the Naugrim sack would have been really traumatic, because those who could have fought would have done - thereby increasing their chances of getting killed. So Dior has Oropher's Green-elves; he has some experienced people like Celeborn and Erestor and Melinna; most of his forces are inexperienced Sindar; he has the advantage of knowing the ground and the mere fact that he's fighting for his home. But the opposition is tough, wild and has been fighting Orcs on a relatively regular basis for the last four hundred years or so.
On the other hand, the Noldor have recently lost that Very Serious battle, plus their kingdoms - that must have done something horrible to their morale, they're no longer at full strength, whatever that might have been, and they're very much on unfamiliar ground. Plus (this I'm brushing over very lightly) I'm keeping back Maedhros, the stray brothers and a decent number of their men in the woods, holding the exit clear against Oropher's missing patrols and the woodland Sindar - and as you say, the Sindar and also the Green-elves have a massive advantage out there. So they can't take anything for granted.
Dior's age, well, I think it would have been silver enough, given a enough time to rebuild. Dior himself did well enough with Beren against the Dwarves, and that can't have been an easy fight. But it wasn't. Poor Dior. :'(
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My guess is: heavily, but not frequently. Before the establishing the Girdle, well, they were simply vulnerable, untli they were well armed and in a great number of trained warriors, therefore ready to -- as you said partially -- win the battle.
Then, they had to learn how to deal with the Girdle, I think they had to learn how to move around it -- after all not every one of them was a seasoned border guard or an expert hunter to begin with.
I said "heavily", because I think they dealt with the orcs more by the times of the battles -- sometimes massively, but other times the borders were fairly safe when guarded by both the guardians and the Girdle, and only those more adventurous met the orcs in great numbers (like Beleg and the axe-armed squad in Brethil, or Beleg and Mablung in the Nirnaeth). After the death of Thingol -- probably it required to tripple the patrols around Doriath, and that wasn't enough, as we know.
Ha! :D I'm back home from work, can you tell? Btw, I'm gearing myself up to writing a story about the Sindar with axes in Brethil -- the bunny has been insistent ;)
Reply
I'm slightly handicapped here because I don't like the tale of Turin Turambar, so I'm not particularly well-informed about that episode or indeed that part of the world. Also while most of my more serious stories link back somehow to the fall of Doriath, I'm not dealing with Doriath or the Sindar in any particularly coherent or systematic way, so I tend to pick up different aspects at different times. And that means I have gaps in my canon-knowledge, depending on what's relevant to any given story.
Anyway - Sindar and axes in Brethil? Time for me to go reread Turin... :D
Reply
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