I'm sorry, but if someone finds a public assertion that god probably doesn't exist offensive, then I'm very happy to offend them! Why on earth shouldn't I be able to state my beliefs in a non confrontational manner like this, when religious people have the right to??
The wording of the slogan came about because the bus companies involved have some policy that the adverts they carry shouldn't offend religious people. Obviously there is no such rule concerning the sensitivities of non-religious people, which is just another example of how unfair it is that religion is given protections that atheism/humanism/etc aren't. The addition of the word "probably" also adds a bit of humour to it, so while orginally I was against it too, on reflection, I actually think it's better that it's there than not. It's also accurate - no athiest can *prove* there is no god, and at least we are happy to admit that, in contrast to religionists who state their beliefs as absolute fact with no proof whatsoever.
Don't you think the christian advertising around London gets up my nose? Should I really have to tolerate people preaching to me on buses? I've had people in the street tell me I'm going to hell. Never mind the posters that wouldn't pass Advertising Standards regulations if they were about any other topic? I should just suck this up silently, should I?
Personally I do find atheism to be a better role for living my life than religion. I can't see how believing in an invisible person would improve my quality of life at all.
I sort of agree that it's a huge amount of money has been raised, and I have to trust that they will use it as best they see fit. If I didn't, then I wouldn't have donated. What I think is far more important than the money in the bank, is the sense that a *lot* of like minded people have suddenly found a cause they believe in, to get behind, who don't traditionally have a voice (because if you are too busy getting on with your life, why would you want to dedicate time and effort to something you *don't* believe in?) There are a lot of people who object to the privilages religion, specifically christianity, have in our society, especially given that only a small minority of people are actually practicing christians. Automatic seats in Parliment, state funding to religious schools, exemption for religionists from certain laws, the blasphemy laws, even the fact that this campaign was discussed on Thought for the Day on Radio 4 yesterday, but athiests have no right to reply in the same slot, because it is reserved only for religious people - yet we pay the same licence fee. There are lots of areas of inequality that people have been tollerating for years, and it's taken this to spark some sort of campaign, even though I agree it's a bit wooly around the edges, for so many people to speak up with their cash to point out they exist too.
I hope this campaign will raise all of these issues for discussion and perhaps some good will come out of it. So no, I don't think it's pointless.
I'm not saying that the posters shouldn't be allowed: I'm very much a free speechist and would fight to the death yada yada. In the same way that the Christians have the right to say that you're going to burn in hell, you have the right to tell them that they're stupid and gullible (and I have the right to think you're both wrong, but generally keep quiet about it).
I just don't get it. I mean, what happens next? Suppose I see this poster and go "Oh, yeah, of course, what a fool I've been". Then what? Where do I go to become an atheist? What does the campaign lead on to? Who can I get support from? I don't see a great future for communal atheism, as there's nothing in atheism to commune over. It's impossible to treat atheism like any other religion, because it's not like any other religion. it has no festival, leaders (unless you count Dawkins, of course) or other beliefs to discuss, debate or adhere to. So I really don't understand the point of it. I get the point of Christians diong this kind of thing - I understand their aim in promoting Christianity. But I don't get the point of actively promoting atheism.
Whilst anyone can believe whatever they like, I'd rather more people in the world had a logical, rational world view, than one led by "faith". If there were no religion would we have this so called "war on terror"? While I appreciate that for millions of people it's a personal thing, and it does little harm, religion is also the cause of wars etc. Sure war would happen anyway due to greed etc, but religion justifies people's belief that they are intrinsically right and have the right to kill to prove it. Religious people also have a tendancy to try to apply their absolute morals to others, eg abortion, euthenasia. I don't consider it my right to make choices for them, but somehow they do for me? Obviously this causes all sorts of conflicts.
More to the point, is the point I made in my previous last paragraph regarding the large, and usually silent, number of people who support moves towards a more secular state and public life. Obviously it's not exactly the same as atheism, but is often closely linked, and this I totally believe in and think is a worthy, and positive cause.
The wording of the slogan came about because the bus companies involved have some policy that the adverts they carry shouldn't offend religious people. Obviously there is no such rule concerning the sensitivities of non-religious people, which is just another example of how unfair it is that religion is given protections that atheism/humanism/etc aren't. The addition of the word "probably" also adds a bit of humour to it, so while orginally I was against it too, on reflection, I actually think it's better that it's there than not. It's also accurate - no athiest can *prove* there is no god, and at least we are happy to admit that, in contrast to religionists who state their beliefs as absolute fact with no proof whatsoever.
Don't you think the christian advertising around London gets up my nose? Should I really have to tolerate people preaching to me on buses? I've had people in the street tell me I'm going to hell. Never mind the posters that wouldn't pass Advertising Standards regulations if they were about any other topic? I should just suck this up silently, should I?
Personally I do find atheism to be a better role for living my life than religion. I can't see how believing in an invisible person would improve my quality of life at all.
I sort of agree that it's a huge amount of money has been raised, and I have to trust that they will use it as best they see fit. If I didn't, then I wouldn't have donated. What I think is far more important than the money in the bank, is the sense that a *lot* of like minded people have suddenly found a cause they believe in, to get behind, who don't traditionally have a voice (because if you are too busy getting on with your life, why would you want to dedicate time and effort to something you *don't* believe in?) There are a lot of people who object to the privilages religion, specifically christianity, have in our society, especially given that only a small minority of people are actually practicing christians. Automatic seats in Parliment, state funding to religious schools, exemption for religionists from certain laws, the blasphemy laws, even the fact that this campaign was discussed on Thought for the Day on Radio 4 yesterday, but athiests have no right to reply in the same slot, because it is reserved only for religious people - yet we pay the same licence fee. There are lots of areas of inequality that people have been tollerating for years, and it's taken this to spark some sort of campaign, even though I agree it's a bit wooly around the edges, for so many people to speak up with their cash to point out they exist too.
I hope this campaign will raise all of these issues for discussion and perhaps some good will come out of it. So no, I don't think it's pointless.
Reply
I just don't get it. I mean, what happens next? Suppose I see this poster and go "Oh, yeah, of course, what a fool I've been". Then what? Where do I go to become an atheist? What does the campaign lead on to? Who can I get support from? I don't see a great future for communal atheism, as there's nothing in atheism to commune over. It's impossible to treat atheism like any other religion, because it's not like any other religion. it has no festival, leaders (unless you count Dawkins, of course) or other beliefs to discuss, debate or adhere to. So I really don't understand the point of it. I get the point of Christians diong this kind of thing - I understand their aim in promoting Christianity. But I don't get the point of actively promoting atheism.
Reply
More to the point, is the point I made in my previous last paragraph regarding the large, and usually silent, number of people who support moves towards a more secular state and public life. Obviously it's not exactly the same as atheism, but is often closely linked, and this I totally believe in and think is a worthy, and positive cause.
Reply
Leave a comment