Mysteries of the Library
"Oh, I'm thick! Look at me, I'm old and thick! Head's too full of stuff - I need a bigger head!"
--The Doctor, Silence in the Library
Silence in the Library was the episode of Doctor Who broadcast on the Sci-Fi Channel last night. It was about an enormous library in the 51st century taking up an entire planet. Nothing else was on the planet except ( Read more... )
--The Doctor, Silence in the Library
Silence in the Library was the episode of Doctor Who broadcast on the Sci-Fi Channel last night. It was about an enormous library in the 51st century taking up an entire planet. Nothing else was on the planet except ( Read more... )
Was there anything in particular that made him think so or is it just that he thinks it would be an interesting twist? I'm with you in doubting that...if she was the little girl, she would have to have forgotten all about it...
--I am hoping that Professor River Song will turn out to be a descendant and not Yet Another Potential Love Interest.--
I understand that this is something not appreciated by longer term Doctor Who fans. (I'm very new to the show.) It doesn't bother me because relationships with other people, friends, enemies, lovers or potential lovers, are what allow a character to grow. The Doctor could end up having only relationships with friends and enemies, but having relationships with lovers or potential lovers will allow his character to grow in entirely different ways. An online friend recently said of Doctor Who:
DW isn't character-driven and the characters aren't particularly three-dimensional: they are locked into certain patterns that cannot be altered; the Doctor, especially, cannot be changed or developed--he must remain the basic template that was established long ago. The variations are slight and insignificant; the Doctor will be the same in an episode a year from now as he was fifteen years ago. The variations occur in the plots--finding a new adventure to which the Doctor will react in his prescribed manner: it is predictable and familiar, and it is supposed to be that way, according to the purpose, style, and premise of the show.
I really don't want this to be true and, at least in the current series since 2005, I don't think it is. Although it took place prior to the current series, the Time War seems to have greatly impacted the Doctor's character. In the current series, losing Rose also greatly impacted his character. I think he was quite a bit more mad without her in series 3 - not just because she was gone, but because he'd allowed himself to fall in love with her and the loss was harder on him for that reason. (Obviously this is up for interpretation, since he never explicitly says it.)
I also think that, given who the Doctor is with his natural charisma, Donna's relative lack of romantic interest in him seems unusual. So, it makes sense that both Rose and Martha (and any future female companion) could be in love with him. The objection, I guess, is that the Doctor should not easily (or ever) fall in love. Martha was never a potential love interest for him, though. If Professor River Song is, it may be years before she shows up again. Surely, he may fall in love from time to time, either because he allows it or he can't help it? To me, that makes him more realistic.
It doesn't seem like Professor River Song could be a descendant. I can't imagine a descendant calling an ancestor "Pretty Boy". *lol*
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I don't think the Doctor is static, and I don't think he ever has been. He can't change *too* much, but each Doctor is different. And I agree that the relationship with Rose definitely changed the 10th Doctor.
I'm given to understand that the former Doctors had a more avuncular relationship with their Companions. Given that one of these looked like Peter Davison, that seems hard to swallow. Were all the girls blind? But I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Rose loved the Doctor; Martha loved the Doctor; and although she tries to hide it, I think Donna loves the Doctor. Then we get the Family of Blood stuff with another romance, and it just starts to get a little old to me. It would be really nice if his next companion were just not interested in him.
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It's funny, though, because having seen the transition from the 9th Doctor to the 10th Doctor (not just the regeneration, but the Tennant's incorporation of some of Eccleston's traits into his early performance), I absolutely believe that the 9th Doctor and 10th Doctor are the same person. Obviously, he'll be somewhat different because the actors are different, though. Still, certain components of his personality, who he essentially is, must stay the same. His self-confidence, his slight arrogance, his genius, etc.
But, his approach to situations can be very different, even with the same actor, based on his prior experiences. For example, based on what the Doctor has said about the Time War, there is an implication that he was responsible for a decision to destroy the Daleks which also led to the destruction of Gallifrey and the rest of his species. Subsequently, he's left alone and this decision seems to have haunted him. (This is especially apparent in the 9th Doctor, although the 10th Doctor also makes reference to it in "Doomsday" and the Beast identifies the 10th Doctor as the killer of his own kind in "The Satan Pit".) In "The Parting of the Ways" (series 1), the Doctor says that he "almost" thought it was worth it to have all the Time Lords and Gallifrey destroyed, if it meant the Daleks would be destroyed forever as well, suggesting that he might not have made the same decision again. Then, as history seems to repeat itself, the Doctor has a similar decision to make in this episode. He can destroy all the Daleks left in the universe (or so he would believe, since he doesn't know about the Void ship yet), but the price is to destroy all the humans (and every other living creature) within a certain radius of his delta wave. He cannot bring himself to do it this time and, essentially, surrenders.
There is another example of the Doctor changing his response based on an immediate experience in "Dalek" (series 1). He traps Rose with the Dalek in a lockdown. Of course, he's hoping that she'll be able to make it out before the doors are sealed, but she doesn't. He then hears the Dalek say, "Exterminate," and he believes her to be dead. Minutes later, he discovers that she has not been killed and the Dalek is threatening to kill her, if the doors are not opened. Having experienced the Dalek killing Rose once, as he believed had happened, and then being given a second chance, he couldn't do it again - I don't think that had so much to do with Rose herself as it did how he felt when he thought she'd been killed, if that makes sense.
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Actually, I'll take this back. Looking at "The Christmas Invasion" again, I don't actually see a lot of the 9th Doctor in the 10th. I think it's just that, right from the start, Tennant was so clearly perfect for the role, though in a different way than Eccleston, I accepted him as the same person. They both portray the Doctor's essential traits very well.
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*lol* I had to google Peter Davison to see what he looked like...personally, I've always preferred dark hair to blond. :)
Actually, I thought that Rose's relationship with the Doctor began that way - to me, the 9th Doctor always seemed rather fatherly toward her. However, it seemed to me as if there was a shift in "The Parting of the Ways" when Rose brought the TARDIS back to Satellite Five and Rose spoke of being able to see everything that was, is, and ever could be. After that, the Doctor kisses her (which I'm not convinced was required for him to absorb the energy of the time vortex, since that seemed to only have required eye contact) and in series 2, from the beginning, he treats her as more of an equal, even though he continues to be very protective of her, perhaps even more so than the 9th Doctor. (Interestingly, he is not so protective of Martha at all, sending her forward to address the Daleks in "Evoluation of the Daleks". I don't believe for a second that he'd have asked Rose to do that.)
--But I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Rose loved the Doctor; Martha loved the Doctor; and although she tries to hide it, I think Donna loves the Doctor.--
That's funny because I don't get the sense at all that Donna is in love with the Doctor. Perhaps cynodd, cjmr, d_84, crabbydragon, or fullmoon_dreams would have an opinion on this?
--Then we get the Family of Blood stuff with another romance, and it just starts to get a little old to me.--
You've forgotten "The Girl in the Fireplace". ;-) Personally, I suspect that they want to use David Tennant in this way...however, in terms of the Doctor's characterization, "Family of Blood" doesn't really impact it because he was not himself, but the very human John Smith for that romance. I think it was actually important for him to fall in love as a human because what John Smith was giving up in order to allow the Doctor to come back was more significant that way. I recently watched "Human Nature" and "Family of Blood" with cynodd and we talked about it afterward. Although the Doctor offered to have Joan travel with him to see how things might work out, cynodd thought that he would never love her as the Doctor, since he didn't continue to love her once he became the Doctor again.
I guess what you're really saying, though, is that it doesn't matter whether or not the romance is realistic, but you'd rather just have straightforward science fiction? ;-)
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No, I think (or at least hope) that Donna really doesn't (in any way more than friends or at most familial). That is to say, philia but not eros. Not sure about agape--to tired to think about definition and must, must go to bed now before I really screw myself up for tomorrow...
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That being said I think that Donna does love him, she is just not "in love" with him. If that makes sense. Loves him as a friend but does not have any romantic interest in him.
Going back to another point that was made - as I understand Doctor Who mythology each regeneration is a different person altogether, but retains the memories of the older ones. I could be wrong as I haven't seen all of the earlier (pre-Ecclestone) episodes, and those I have seen were back when I was a kid and not taking that much notice of all the intricacies.
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--I also think that the Doctor knows this and that is exactly why he chose her to travel with him next.--
It's funny how absolutely clear he tried to make it that he just wanted a "mate" with whom to travel. (Of course, in American English, "mate" is never used in that context and suggests some sort of sexual relationship instead.) He apparently learned his lesson from the disaster with Martha when he'd just accepted her statement that she only likes human men (though she'd never met a non-human man before him) at face value, even though she was obviously not being entirely truthful.
--Going back to another point that was made - as I understand Doctor Who mythology each regeneration is a different person altogether, but retains the memories of the older ones. I could be wrong as I haven't seen all of the earlier (pre-Ecclestone) episodes, and those I have seen were back when I was a kid and not taking that much notice of all the intricacies.--
I have only seen one of the old episodes (it was of 4 parts), so I have no idea, either. It could be that they were all intended to be quite different with nothing to connect them, except their memories. Obviously, Tennant's portrayal of the Doctor is quite different from Eccleston's overall. And, during "The Christmas Invasion", there was a point made about the Doctor being a different sort of man, testing the sort of man that he was. Still, I think enough of Eccleston's Doctor was retained for a short time that I was able to see them as the same person. Now, I don't believe there is any similarity left, other than in the most basic characteristics that are essential to the Doctor.
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Hmm...I guess I credit Donna with a bit more maturity than this. Also, she responded to the Doctor in a very similar manner the first time she met him, during "The Runaway Bride", when she was engaged to and in love with a different man.
--She does now admit that he's a pretty boy.--
That's true. Donna did agree that he was "pretty" and then said that she felt her response was a bit quick, implying it was ill-considered; so, I agree that she finds his appearance aesthetically pleasing and doesn't like to admit it; but, that's not the same as being romantically attracted to him, I don't think...
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Do we know that he has unnatural charisma, or do we just sort of assume that?
I don't mind a certain number of people falling in love with him, but it does make Donna refreshing for not doing it, too. I like that about her, that the chemistry isn't there. It disturbed me when she kissed him last time. That was just wrong.
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Well, I think his charisma is natural to him. ;-)
I suggest that is probably the case because people seem to inherently like and trust him. For example, he is able to step into a leadership position with people within minutes of meeting them (something that was actually referenced in "Silence in the Library", much to my amusement).
--It disturbed me when she kissed him last time. That was just wrong.--
Well, the Doctor said he needed a shock... *lol*
To counteract that, though, you can see Donna flinch away from him in "Silence in the Library" when he reaches out with both his hands to take her by the arms and guide her away from the shadow.
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people seem to inherently like and trust him
Exuding competence and authority is different from sex appeal, though.
Yes, sex appeal is different than love, too, I grant.
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*lol* I don't think so, in his case. Although...Martha seems to have been totally infatuated with him from the time he kissed her for the genetic transfer. That was probably just Martha, though.
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:) Yeah. Understandable under the circumstances. But I just don't want to see any more of that. :)
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