Feminist Rant
A male friend posted an item about radical feminism and women who hate men. I wasn't going to respond, but then I decided I would, but I got too wordy for an LJ comment, so I'm posting here after . . . how many months of no updates? ANYway. . .
( Rant under cut )
And no-one's asking you to do so. The question wasn't "Should women hate men?" or even "Is it necessary to hate men in order to be a feminist?" It was "Why do some women hate men?" and of course my post is over-simplified, because the experiences and rationale behind any individual woman's feelings on the matter are individual. But the question was raised in the context of feminism so my reply was in that context. That, and the fact that, as the old consciousness-raising phrase had it "the personal is political".
I honestly think that taking into yourself the pain of 3000+ years can only harm you the individual far more than it could ever help your cause.
Your opinion, your decision for yourself--fine. We each have to decide where to spend our energies and how to live our lives. But you don't get to put down those who decide differently. You--or anyone--don't get to put down those who have acknowledged and accepted that pain and rage and used it to fuel the fight for change.
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Lords know that I have acknowledged the pain and rage of multi-generations on many issues; from N.A. rights, religious & pagan persecutions to the holocaust & equal rights. However, I honestly believe that it is possible and probably healthier to acknowledge it and use it to fuel actions to correct wrongs, while not taking it into ones-self and there by "poisoning" ones heart & soul.
Please understand blanket hatred of any kind is something I personally can not in any way comprehend. My mind honestly can not comprehend it. Add in my natural tendencies to want to heal any hurt I encounter. Personally, every woman I have ever known who Hate all men, have personal & very painful histories with the men in their lives, & have decided for reasons of their own to hate all men for the actions of a few. But that is just my mileage. Your words were very insightful and thought provoking though, & that is why I responded to them.
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To some extent, I actually agree with you. I don't think that, in general, hatred is a good or healthy thing. In many cases, to hold on to hatred is just to give those one hates continuing power over one's life. In many cases, the best thing one can do for one's own well-being is to let go of old hurts and move on.
But that advice comes with certain caveats. First, one needs to be out of the original damaging situation. If person X has done nasty things to person Y in the past, but is no longer in any position to harm Y, then Y is usually better off moving on and not letting X affect hir any more than necessary. But if X is still in a position to do nasty things to Y, then, in my opinion, it is foolish to tell Y to forgive X.
[The women I have known who hate men] have personal & very painful histories with the men in their lives, & have decided for reasons of their own to hate all men for the actions of a few.
Not surprising. I can't blame those women who, as you say, hate all men for the actions of a few--because given the ongoing inequities of our society, they're still somewhat in the position of person Y. Their generalization may be over-broad, and not exactly fair to the decent men out there, but they are still in the position of someone vulnerable to further attack. If one is still in the original situation, subject to the likelihood of more damage, it's not time to talk about forgiveness; it's time to work on getting out of there.
Thing is, there's a real difference between un-analyzed anger and hatred, and that which is combined with feminist analysis. While I can't blame non-feminist women for generalizing their anger toward men, I'm not at all certain that it's productive. It may in some cases be somewhat protective against further damage, but often it isn't really protective at all, and just serves to perpetuate the damage, keeping them in the role of victims. And I don't actually disagree about the potentially poisonous nature of hatred. The word I tend to use is "corrosive".
However, my post was specifically focused on the topic of feminist anger because it was in response to a question about why some feminists hate men. Because I know you, I don't think you meant it that way, but your comments on "holding on to a blanket of rage" and how "taking into yourself the pain of 3000+ years can only harm you the individual far more than it could ever help your cause" can sound very condescending--a bit the new-agey more-evolved-than-thou thing. I believe that feminist anger can be very rational and productive. I do not like to see reasoned feminist analysis dismissed as a case of poor damaged victims irrationally lashing out in a misplaced response to personal hurts. Do many (though not all) feminists have painful personal histories with men? Absolutely. In our society, that's inevitable. And I reiterate: the personal is political.
Again, my apologies for being somewhat abrupt. In person (or if I'd taken a bit more time with my reply) I probably wouldn't have responded quite so sharply, but in a public discussion (even one few people will ever read) I didn't feel I could let that appearance of condescension pass unchallenged, which is why I said that you--or anyone--don't get to put down feminists for their anger.
A thing that strikes me as a bit weird: we're having this protracted discussion about the wisdom or otherwise of women forgiving men for the damage done them. The original post that started all this was prompted by a church sermon; the sermon was about healing by finding compassion and forgiveness for those who've hurt you. And the original poster indicated that he was having trouble doing so, was having a hard time forgiving women, especially feminists, for the hurts their hatred had inflicted on him. Bwha? I'm sorry he's felt so hurt and I'm sure he hasn't set out personally to oppress women. But, frankly, I boggle at the thought of men needing to forgive the big, mean, nasty feminists. Just. . . just. . . no.
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At the risk of sounding very fluffy bunny like, in best Glynda good witch voice ""wouldn't it be nice if we could all just forgive each other and all the hurt and pain could just go away & never return.....""
Ok, having gotten that out of my system.... I have to say I have dealt with a few extreme radical feminists who I found hurtful to me personally. I am left feeling rather sorry for men who are somehow expected to apologize for and make right all the historical wrongs of patriarchy all by their lonesome. If such a woman got hold of a man who already had problems with self esteem & was / is naturally overly respectful of others, I can see the potential for great harm being done.
Sadly there just do not seem to be any answers that are helpful & right for the whole world, or even for large chunks of our own little portion of the world.
As always I enjoyed a thoughtful & thought provoking discussion with you.
Thank you Cigfran.
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