The reason Kikaider didn't get a lot of interest is because it was on right around Inuyasha, and the typical age of the Adult Swim viewers was about 12-15, who preferred fillers and running gags and lotsa magic and swords over plot. D:
There are quite a few fans out there, but not many of them spend much time on the 'net for fandom purposes. ;-;
Coincidentally, I finally got the last volume of the 02 remake manga, and while it did have some redeeming moments, it was too little, too late. Still very wtf at the end too. >_<
Kikaider had some pretty decent animation, while I thought 01 was where the lack of budget was showing, imho. Still, it had fun characters and lots of action, buuuuut...D:
As far as I know, Kikaider vs. Inazuman wasn't made until 2003, and at that time, we were airing the whole series + the OVA series in one go. They probably didn't expect to get that one, and considering the average ratings it got amongst viewers, they probably didn't think it worth the money to license and dub the last OVA, much to my chagrin.
While I think I liked my head-canon more with the fic (I really wanted Rei and Ichiro alive, dagnabbit ;___; ), this was a much more hopeful ending than the first two, and we're left with a hint that Jiro made it home if you look at the very last frame. That makes me happy. :3
Though now, I kinda wish my head-canon and real canon to merge somehow, and with the addition of Inazuman and his group...well, opens up a new realm of possibility, don't it? If only I knew more of the Inazuman storyline!
I'm still holding out for an official translation of the original manga--they're recently releasing a bunch of Osamu Tezuka works, so maybe Ishinomori might have his go as well? I mean, he is the man behind Kamen Rider and other ridiculously popular tokusatsu heroes of the 70's, so....
Ahh...this is nice. I was so disappointed no one else bothered to respond or post at the Kikaider_fans comm. to discuss the final OVA, so I needed this. ♥
XD I knew you'd respond, you are my Kikaider homeslice. Maybe I should copy the post to the community...it just hasn't been active and I forget it's there.
Coincidentally, I finally got the last volume of the 02 remake manga, and while it did have some redeeming moments, it was too little, too late. Still very wtf at the end too. >_< What were the redeeming moments? I have only one volume of it. I do like that they gave the villains a bit more exposition. I never was too crazy about the whole "I'm an evil scientist in robes and crazy hair and I want to rule the woooorld!" thing about Gill, but that was the 70s. At least he's less campy that Black Ghost.
Kikaider had some pretty decent animation, while I thought 01 was where the lack of budget was showing, imho. Still, it had fun characters and lots of action, buuuuut...D: Well, there are different aspects to the production that I'm referring to. The series had a lot more crisp drawings, and much more dynamic coloring and shading, but they had so few frames. It seemed like the only time they used any fluid animation was during fight scenes but they used still frames as much as possible (i.e., when Jiro is playing the guitar with guy on the street, they don't bother to animate his fingers playing, they just show his face and leave it to your imagination.) The OVA had much more actual ANIMATION. Meaning people drawing lots of movement. They had to because it was more action-oriented. They also relied less on computers. However, it does seem like they really squandered the coloring budget, it looks awfully flat.
Though now, I kinda wish my head-canon and real canon to merge somehow, and with the addition of Inazuman and his group...well, opens up a new realm of possibility, don't it? If only I knew more of the Inazuman storyline! Yeah, I really want to know the Inazuman storyline too. The characters seem cool. Sounds kind of like an X-men type of theme, superhuman mutants that want to destroy humanity and others that want to save it. On that note, I never finished Cyborg 009 either :/ I don't think they ever released more DVDs beyond the first volume. Well, here's to hoping that all of Ishinomori's works will get translated someday. Otherwise I guess I'll have to go back to studying Japanese :P
Wherever there is mention of Kikaider, I will be there. *ninja*
I have all 7 volumes, and the last one has Jiro as a 'completed' android. He's pretty cool--and he's caring and sweet to Mitsuko, so there are some cute scenes there. Saburo really got a lot more development than any incarnation ever gave him, but that's not saying much really. XD Not sure how I like it, but it's something--the ending though. WTF, Evangelion-style wtfuckery.
I get what you're saying about the animation--sorry, I misunderstood. XD
Funnily enough, Inazuman's real name is Saburo Watari. XD Though seeing him with his gf Miyoppe, I'm inclined to just call him 'Inuyasha' again. XD But yes, all I know is that he's a psychic mutant that's trying to save mankind from other psychic mutants with his friends.
I'm not 100% sure about Cyborg 009, but I think it's been released. I know there have been multiple anime series for it.
I WANTS OFFICIAL TRANSLATIONS, GODDAMMIT. I'm romanizing the first part of volume 1 right now, but translation is rather hard. I still haven't gotten through all of my Japanese grammar book yet!
More Saburo development is good...I might keep trying to read it just to see if MEIMU actually added any worthwhile exposition. I can always pick out the bones. I'm just afraid of reading stuff that will make me angry and pollute my impression of the story. Never saw Evangelion...
I was really enjoying Japanese for a while but my last teacher kind of killed it for me a bit. I've got a fairly good grasp on most grammar and I can still read katakana and hirigana, but somehow my brain just doesn't want to retain Kanji very well.
I wonder why Ishinomori never wrote any more of the story. Maybe he just got tired of it. I would have liked to know what became of Den Komyoji. How much time had passed by the time Kikaider met Inazuman? I also would have liked a little more explanation on how the "obedience" circuit gave him his own "evil" motives. Like being able to lie. Obviously not what Gill had in mind.
Well...if you don't mind spoilers... Saburo is actually Ichiro Komyouji--it's his brain, and he's angry at his situation and jealous of Jiro
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I'm able to recognize hiragana, katakana, and know a few kanji. My grammar is a little more shaky, but I'm working at it.
I truly wonder about that myself--I imagine it was because of all the other things he was working on at the time. The manga, the live action, the Kamen Rider series, the Henshin ninja series, Cyborg 009, Inazuman...I mean, this man looks like the king of multitasking.
As for that obedience circuit...well, one could chalk it up to the programming having to comply with the self-preservation programming...and Gill's incompetence. XD I know that the imperfect Gemini caused him to give in to the darker side of his emotions in the original manga--he had a desire for Mitsuko's affections, but the flute made him want to possess her physically as well...not sure if that helps things make any sense, but there ya go.
About the spoiler...that's funny, because at one point when I was toying with story ideas in my head, I came up with the same thing, except that at a later date, after recovering, Prof. Komyoji put Ichiro's brain that he had preserved into Saburo's body...I thought that'd be an interested idea. But I don't care for an outright change in the original story like that.
Hehe...well, I think I'm just overthinking as usual. I just found what he said at the end to be very profound and intriguing. "with this, I have become fully human, but the price I pay for it is eternal torment, as the good and evil inside me stuggle in my heart ". Heavy stuff, man. I mean, if you think about it...the ideal gemini that they wanted him "fixed" with was never really very human at all. Nobody has a perfect conscience. It's human nature to not always heed your conscience and give into evil desires. And like Golden Bat pointed out, good and evil isn't always measured the same by everyone. So a "perfected" Jiro is just about as likely as a "pefected" human.
I thought I recalled you toying with the idea a bit some time ago--I can't say I really enjoyed what they did with Saburo, as I felt Saburo was his own entity and deserved to be treated as such. Saburo was Saburo, and I would have liked to know more about him.
Interestingly enough, in the live action, Jiro often says 'I would prefer not to have my gemini completed, because then I would be superior to a human...and I would rather be more like humans instead not to mention, Mitsuko, I would prefer you not have to see the inner mechanics of my body. In the 02 manga, the 'perfected' Jiro didn't seem to be any different--he just had a solid blue body with yellow markings, he was faster, and he seemed more confident and knowledgeable about things--he removed the nanocytes that had infected the right half of Mitsuko's body by absorbing them. But his personality--well, didn't see too much of it, really.
I wish I knew where to buy the damned things--I'm not seeing an order form anywhere, so I guess I'll have to wait until I go to Japan. ;-;
I also wantthis, but I don't know if I wanna spend over $75 for it. X_X
I thought I recalled you toying with the idea a bit some time ago--I can't say I really enjoyed what they did with Saburo, as I felt Saburo was his own entity and deserved to be treated as such. Saburo was Saburo, and I would have liked to know more about him.
Yeah, I agree entirely. What I liked about Saburo is he really seemed to be his own man...or machine. He had his own motives despite not having a conscience circuit. Even when I thought of the Ichiro's brain idea, I didn't think of it being Ichiro, just that he might have access to his memories, like he did with Den. BTW, there's a funny picture of Saburo on DeviantArt. Just search for Hakaider and you'll probably see it XD
Interestingly enough, in the live action, Jiro often says 'I would prefer not to have my gemini completed, because then I would be superior to a human... That is interesting...I think what he says is completely true, though I'm not sure if Jiro in the animation really thought of that, I think he was just afraid of losing who he was, but he seems to have realized that at the end of 01.
In the 02 manga, the 'perfected' Jiro didn't seem to be any different--he just had a solid blue body with yellow markings, he was faster, and he seemed more confident and knowledgeable about things--he removed the nanocytes that had infected the right half of Mitsuko's body by absorbing them. But his personality--well, didn't see too much of it, really.
I think this proves that MEIMU really failed to understand the very foundation of the story and Jiro's character. He was never meant to be perfected. The red and blue symbolized the good and evil at war inside him, FOREVER, because he chose to be like humans. That's what makes him an interesting character in the first place. MEIMU = FAIL
Have you looked for anything like that at Cons? I am determined to go to Anime Expo next year since I missed it this year.
BTW, I saw the Mr. Roboto amv on youtube. LOL@ how everyone comments on that one scene XD
Well, to be thorough, Saburo/Ichiro himself was not sure about who he really was--but he had obvious feelings regarding Mitsuko (not necessarily romantic) when Jiro said her name as he was kicking the shit out of him. Basically, he was having an identity crisis that never quite got resolved. But I imagine they were going with the idea that he was Ichiro.
I did the devart search, and I'm not sure which funny picture you're talking about. XD
I'm pretty sure Animation and original manga!Jiro didn't realize this until after the fact, but the live action decidedly took a different route--I guess Ishinomori was wanting to play with all aspects of his story, and since the live action was geared more towards little kids, I don't think he wanted to make it that dramatic.
Ironically, Hakaider was the one to have Jiro 'perfected'--I think he did it just to fuck with Gill. Honestly, I think they were more obsessed with Saburo's character towards the end than anything else.
I always look for Kikaider at cons, and fail to find anything ever! ;-; It sucks.
LOL. The only thing Kikaider will ever be remembered for. HAWT WOMAN ON ANDROID PSEUDOSEX. *facepalm*
I guess I can't blame anyone for wanting to focus on Saburo more. He IS an interesting character and he has that badass mofo attitude that Jiro lacks. But he's classically his nemesis. Some of the best moments in the anime is Saburo and Jiro interacting and fighting. Because he's finally a worthy opponent that isn't just following orders. Problem is, it seems like he did that at the cost of neglecting Jiro's character development. It's odd that the manga cover says "Story by Shotaro Ishinomori". How much approval did MEIMU get for this?
Yeah, the infamous arm fixing scene...To be honest, while I used to fight tooth and nail against anyone suggesting there was something else going on there, the more I think about it and that branch/pipe thing they through in there, I have to concede that nobody can really prove anything either way. Especially after you mentioned that the director had different ideas of what to do with that scene. I'm not saying I believe that there really was hawt android secks but I think you could make a good case for believing that something else may have happened. The point of the scene gets across either way.
BTW, in the I.v.K. special, it's kind of creepy that Jiro is grinning ear to ear in the memory of killing Ichiro and Rei o.0; So here's a question: WHY
I think MEIMU was given permission to do a retelling of the story, but as Ishinomori died soon after...well, I don't know how much he saw or knew was going to happen.
I thought about it too, but it turns out my friend was more than likely mistaken--I dug a little further and the best I could come up with was that the scene was meant to represent the tender intimacy between Jiro and Mitsuko, as they had both grown past the restrictions of their hearts and came to love each other. While there was no physical lovemaking going on (because it would have cheapened the scene overall), they animated it that way to allude to that intimacy between their hearts. Either way, I thought it was very well done and tasteful.
Regarding I.v.K--it's because it wasn't a memory. It was a hallucination--you notice he appeared to be all red? That is Jiro's biggest fear--that he would become a ruthless killing machine that took joy in the destruction of everything he loved. It was what kept him from going home. He is absolutely terrified at the idea that his submission circuit was going to act up one day and make him kill his loved ones again. In a sense, he was throwing himself into his guilt, because as long as he is guilt, the more he would fight against that nightmare. However, that was also his trap, as the Itsutsu Bambara was manipulating him through it.
I thought about it too, but it turns out my friend was more than likely mistaken--I dug a little further and the best I could come up with was that the scene was meant to represent the tender intimacy between Jiro and Mitsuko, as they had both grown past the restrictions of their hearts and came to love each other. While there was no physical lovemaking going on (because it would have cheapened the scene overall), they animated it that way to allude to that intimacy between their hearts. Either way, I thought it was very well done and tasteful. Oh, absolutely, I whole-heartedly agree, my point is just that I know people that study filmaking that would look at that little scene insertion and say it's designed to make you think that way. They used to do that stuff all the time in old movies. Since it's just a cartoon, obviously people can imagine all sorts of things. But I'm glad it was done that way, it's not only tasteful it's brilliant.
Regarding I.v.K--it's because it wasn't a memory. It was a hallucination--you notice he appeared to be all red? That is Jiro's biggest fear--that he would become a ruthless killing machine that took joy in the destruction of everything he loved. It was what kept him from going home. He is absolutely terrified at the idea that his submission circuit was going to act up one day and make him kill his loved ones again. In a sense, he was throwing himself into his guilt, because as long as he is guilt, the more he would fight against that nightmare. However, that was also his trap, as the Itsutsu Bambara was manipulating him through it.
Sorry, I know it was an induced hallucination, I was just typing without thinking too much about what I was typing :P That was a perfect answer! Actually I didn't notice he was all red at first though, that kicks ass. That sequence is just made of awesome. I also like how he was using a guitar as the means to manipulate him, it's almost like a friend.
Heee, is good point. Man, now I wanna study film-making or script writing a bit...seems like it'd be natural for me the way I keep critiquing the media I watch.
That sequence was the clincher for me--not only did we get a look at Jiro's mind, but he mentioned EVERYONE. Ichiro, Rei, Bijinder, Rieko...Mitsuko and Masaru--you know, something the 01 OVA failed to do! >:O But yes, that OVA managed to showcase a lot of things very well, considering how it was only a half hour presentation.
I, too, noticed the cleverness of using the guitar as the Itsutsu Bambara's guise. If you recall the first time I heard of the OVA, I was all '...waitaminute, wtf! Where the hell did he get that guitar, his was covered in tape and glue! >:O'
lol, now that I see it, I remember how Jiro said he played the guitar when he was lonely (I think)-- so it made perfect sense for it to take that shape. He was literally using it to keep himself calm, not knowing it was also trying to screw with him in order to get close enough to Inazuman to kill.
I hope the comm. has some activity soon--I ordered the 01 soundtrack, so when I get it in, I'll rip it and see if I can put it up for download.
I can't remember...did the 01 manga ever mention Mitsuko and Masaru? I'm guessing no. I'm sure they must have left a significant amount of plot out to make it so short. Another cool thing about that part is Ichiro telling him he'd be happy if he just became a mere machine again. Talk about irony...no, Pinocchio didn't find happiness in becoming a real boy. Of course, nobody would ever want to sacrifice their free will to rid themselves of pain in exchange for blissful ignorance.
Well, it's nice that the two of us got to have this discussion XD
Actually, in the original, Ichiro, Rieko and Akira all met Mitsuko and Masaru briefly before she took off for her father's health. That's why I really want the original manga translated--there were quite a few differences between the manga and anime, and I want to know what's going on. D:
The reason Kikaider didn't get a lot of interest is because it was on right around Inuyasha, and the typical age of the Adult Swim viewers was about 12-15, who preferred fillers and running gags and lotsa magic and swords over plot. D:
There are quite a few fans out there, but not many of them spend much time on the 'net for fandom purposes. ;-;
Coincidentally, I finally got the last volume of the 02 remake manga, and while it did have some redeeming moments, it was too little, too late. Still very wtf at the end too. >_<
Kikaider had some pretty decent animation, while I thought 01 was where the lack of budget was showing, imho. Still, it had fun characters and lots of action, buuuuut...D:
As far as I know, Kikaider vs. Inazuman wasn't made until 2003, and at that time, we were airing the whole series + the OVA series in one go. They probably didn't expect to get that one, and considering the average ratings it got amongst viewers, they probably didn't think it worth the money to license and dub the last OVA, much to my chagrin.
While I think I liked my head-canon more with the fic (I really wanted Rei and Ichiro alive, dagnabbit ;___; ), this was a much more hopeful ending than the first two, and we're left with a hint that Jiro made it home if you look at the very last frame. That makes me happy. :3
Though now, I kinda wish my head-canon and real canon to merge somehow, and with the addition of Inazuman and his group...well, opens up a new realm of possibility, don't it? If only I knew more of the Inazuman storyline!
I'm still holding out for an official translation of the original manga--they're recently releasing a bunch of Osamu Tezuka works, so maybe Ishinomori might have his go as well? I mean, he is the man behind Kamen Rider and other ridiculously popular tokusatsu heroes of the 70's, so....
Ahh...this is nice. I was so disappointed no one else bothered to respond or post at the Kikaider_fans comm. to discuss the final OVA, so I needed this.
♥
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Maybe I should copy the post to the community...it just hasn't been active and I forget it's there.
Coincidentally, I finally got the last volume of the 02 remake manga, and while it did have some redeeming moments, it was too little, too late. Still very wtf at the end too. >_< What were the redeeming moments? I have only one volume of it. I do like that they gave the villains a bit more exposition. I never was too crazy about the whole "I'm an evil scientist in robes and crazy hair and I want to rule the woooorld!" thing about Gill, but that was the 70s. At least he's less campy that Black Ghost.
Kikaider had some pretty decent animation, while I thought 01 was where the lack of budget was showing, imho. Still, it had fun characters and lots of action, buuuuut...D:
Well, there are different aspects to the production that I'm referring to. The series had a lot more crisp drawings, and much more dynamic coloring and shading, but they had so few frames. It seemed like the only time they used any fluid animation was during fight scenes but they used still frames as much as possible (i.e., when Jiro is playing the guitar with guy on the street, they don't bother to animate his fingers playing, they just show his face and leave it to your imagination.)
The OVA had much more actual ANIMATION. Meaning people drawing lots of movement. They had to because it was more action-oriented. They also relied less on computers. However, it does seem like they really squandered the coloring budget, it looks awfully flat.
Though now, I kinda wish my head-canon and real canon to merge somehow, and with the addition of Inazuman and his group...well, opens up a new realm of possibility, don't it? If only I knew more of the Inazuman storyline!
Yeah, I really want to know the Inazuman storyline too. The characters seem cool. Sounds kind of like an X-men type of theme, superhuman mutants that want to destroy humanity and others that want to save it. On that note, I never finished Cyborg 009 either :/ I don't think they ever released more DVDs beyond the first volume.
Well, here's to hoping that all of Ishinomori's works will get translated someday. Otherwise I guess I'll have to go back to studying Japanese :P
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I have all 7 volumes, and the last one has Jiro as a 'completed' android. He's pretty cool--and he's caring and sweet to Mitsuko, so there are some cute scenes there. Saburo really got a lot more development than any incarnation ever gave him, but that's not saying much really. XD Not sure how I like it, but it's something--the ending though. WTF, Evangelion-style wtfuckery.
I get what you're saying about the animation--sorry, I misunderstood. XD
Funnily enough, Inazuman's real name is Saburo Watari. XD Though seeing him with his gf Miyoppe, I'm inclined to just call him 'Inuyasha' again. XD But yes, all I know is that he's a psychic mutant that's trying to save mankind from other psychic mutants with his friends.
I'm not 100% sure about Cyborg 009, but I think it's been released. I know there have been multiple anime series for it.
I WANTS OFFICIAL TRANSLATIONS, GODDAMMIT. I'm romanizing the first part of volume 1 right now, but translation is rather hard. I still haven't gotten through all of my Japanese grammar book yet!
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I was really enjoying Japanese for a while but my last teacher kind of killed it for me a bit. I've got a fairly good grasp on most grammar and I can still read katakana and hirigana, but somehow my brain just doesn't want to retain Kanji very well.
I wonder why Ishinomori never wrote any more of the story. Maybe he just got tired of it. I would have liked to know what became of Den Komyoji. How much time had passed by the time Kikaider met Inazuman? I also would have liked a little more explanation on how the "obedience" circuit gave him his own "evil" motives. Like being able to lie. Obviously not what Gill had in mind.
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Saburo is actually Ichiro Komyouji--it's his brain, and he's angry at his situation and jealous of Jiro
(highlight)
I'm able to recognize hiragana, katakana, and know a few kanji. My grammar is a little more shaky, but I'm working at it.
I truly wonder about that myself--I imagine it was because of all the other things he was working on at the time. The manga, the live action, the Kamen Rider series, the Henshin ninja series, Cyborg 009, Inazuman...I mean, this man looks like the king of multitasking.
As for that obedience circuit...well, one could chalk it up to the programming having to comply with the self-preservation programming...and Gill's incompetence. XD I know that the imperfect Gemini caused him to give in to the darker side of his emotions in the original manga--he had a desire for Mitsuko's affections, but the flute made him want to possess her physically as well...not sure if that helps things make any sense, but there ya go.
ETA: I want this so bad. D:
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Hehe...well, I think I'm just overthinking as usual. I just found what he said at the end to be very profound and intriguing. "with this, I have become fully human, but the price I pay for it is eternal torment, as the good and evil inside me stuggle in my heart ". Heavy stuff, man.
I mean, if you think about it...the ideal gemini that they wanted him "fixed" with was never really very human at all. Nobody has a perfect conscience. It's human nature to not always heed your conscience and give into evil desires. And like Golden Bat pointed out, good and evil isn't always measured the same by everyone. So a "perfected" Jiro is just about as likely as a "pefected" human.
Cute keychains ;_;
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Interestingly enough, in the live action, Jiro often says 'I would prefer not to have my gemini completed, because then I would be superior to a human...and I would rather be more like humans instead not to mention, Mitsuko, I would prefer you not have to see the inner mechanics of my body. In the 02 manga, the 'perfected' Jiro didn't seem to be any different--he just had a solid blue body with yellow markings, he was faster, and he seemed more confident and knowledgeable about things--he removed the nanocytes that had infected the right half of Mitsuko's body by absorbing them. But his personality--well, didn't see too much of it, really.
I wish I knew where to buy the damned things--I'm not seeing an order form anywhere, so I guess I'll have to wait until I go to Japan. ;-;
I also want this, but I don't know if I wanna spend over $75 for it. X_X
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Yeah, I agree entirely. What I liked about Saburo is he really seemed to be his own man...or machine. He had his own motives despite not having a conscience circuit. Even when I thought of the Ichiro's brain idea, I didn't think of it being Ichiro, just that he might have access to his memories, like he did with Den. BTW, there's a funny picture of Saburo on DeviantArt. Just search for Hakaider and you'll probably see it XD
Interestingly enough, in the live action, Jiro often says 'I would prefer not to have my gemini completed, because then I would be superior to a human...
That is interesting...I think what he says is completely true, though I'm not sure if Jiro in the animation really thought of that, I think he was just afraid of losing who he was, but he seems to have realized that at the end of 01.
In the 02 manga, the 'perfected' Jiro didn't seem to be any different--he just had a solid blue body with yellow markings, he was faster, and he seemed more confident and knowledgeable about things--he removed the nanocytes that had infected the right half of Mitsuko's body by absorbing them. But his personality--well, didn't see too much of it, really.
I think this proves that MEIMU really failed to understand the very foundation of the story and Jiro's character. He was never meant to be perfected. The red and blue symbolized the good and evil at war inside him, FOREVER, because he chose to be like humans. That's what makes him an interesting character in the first place. MEIMU = FAIL
Have you looked for anything like that at Cons? I am determined to go to Anime Expo next year since I missed it this year.
BTW, I saw the Mr. Roboto amv on youtube. LOL@ how everyone comments on that one scene XD
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I did the devart search, and I'm not sure which funny picture you're talking about. XD
I'm pretty sure Animation and original manga!Jiro didn't realize this until after the fact, but the live action decidedly took a different route--I guess Ishinomori was wanting to play with all aspects of his story, and since the live action was geared more towards little kids, I don't think he wanted to make it that dramatic.
Ironically, Hakaider was the one to have Jiro 'perfected'--I think he did it just to fuck with Gill. Honestly, I think they were more obsessed with Saburo's character towards the end than anything else.
I always look for Kikaider at cons, and fail to find anything ever! ;-; It sucks.
LOL. The only thing Kikaider will ever be remembered for. HAWT WOMAN ON ANDROID PSEUDOSEX. *facepalm*
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Yeah, the infamous arm fixing scene...To be honest, while I used to fight tooth and nail against anyone suggesting there was something else going on there, the more I think about it and that branch/pipe thing they through in there, I have to concede that nobody can really prove anything either way. Especially after you mentioned that the director had different ideas of what to do with that scene. I'm not saying I believe that there really was hawt android secks but I think you could make a good case for believing that something else may have happened. The point of the scene gets across either way.
BTW, in the I.v.K. special, it's kind of creepy that Jiro is grinning ear to ear in the memory of killing Ichiro and Rei o.0;
So here's a question: WHY
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I thought about it too, but it turns out my friend was more than likely mistaken--I dug a little further and the best I could come up with was that the scene was meant to represent the tender intimacy between Jiro and Mitsuko, as they had both grown past the restrictions of their hearts and came to love each other. While there was no physical lovemaking going on (because it would have cheapened the scene overall), they animated it that way to allude to that intimacy between their hearts. Either way, I thought it was very well done and tasteful.
Regarding I.v.K--it's because it wasn't a memory. It was a hallucination--you notice he appeared to be all red? That is Jiro's biggest fear--that he would become a ruthless killing machine that took joy in the destruction of everything he loved. It was what kept him from going home. He is absolutely terrified at the idea that his submission circuit was going to act up one day and make him kill his loved ones again. In a sense, he was throwing himself into his guilt, because as long as he is guilt, the more he would fight against that nightmare. However, that was also his trap, as the Itsutsu Bambara was manipulating him through it.
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Oh, absolutely, I whole-heartedly agree, my point is just that I know people that study filmaking that would look at that little scene insertion and say it's designed to make you think that way. They used to do that stuff all the time in old movies. Since it's just a cartoon, obviously people can imagine all sorts of things. But I'm glad it was done that way, it's not only tasteful it's brilliant.
Regarding I.v.K--it's because it wasn't a memory. It was a hallucination--you notice he appeared to be all red? That is Jiro's biggest fear--that he would become a ruthless killing machine that took joy in the destruction of everything he loved. It was what kept him from going home. He is absolutely terrified at the idea that his submission circuit was going to act up one day and make him kill his loved ones again. In a sense, he was throwing himself into his guilt, because as long as he is guilt, the more he would fight against that nightmare. However, that was also his trap, as the Itsutsu Bambara was manipulating him through it.
Sorry, I know it was an induced hallucination, I was just typing without thinking too much about what I was typing :P That was a perfect answer! Actually I didn't notice he was all red at first though, that kicks ass. That sequence is just made of awesome.
I also like how he was using a guitar as the means to manipulate him, it's almost like a friend.
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That sequence was the clincher for me--not only did we get a look at Jiro's mind, but he mentioned EVERYONE. Ichiro, Rei, Bijinder, Rieko...Mitsuko and Masaru--you know, something the 01 OVA failed to do! >:O But yes, that OVA managed to showcase a lot of things very well, considering how it was only a half hour presentation.
I, too, noticed the cleverness of using the guitar as the Itsutsu Bambara's guise. If you recall the first time I heard of the OVA, I was all '...waitaminute, wtf! Where the hell did he get that guitar, his was covered in tape and glue! >:O'
lol, now that I see it, I remember how Jiro said he played the guitar when he was lonely (I think)-- so it made perfect sense for it to take that shape. He was literally using it to keep himself calm, not knowing it was also trying to screw with him in order to get close enough to Inazuman to kill.
I hope the comm. has some activity soon--I ordered the 01 soundtrack, so when I get it in, I'll rip it and see if I can put it up for download.
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Another cool thing about that part is Ichiro telling him he'd be happy if he just became a mere machine again. Talk about irony...no, Pinocchio didn't find happiness in becoming a real boy. Of course, nobody would ever want to sacrifice their free will to rid themselves of pain in exchange for blissful ignorance.
Well, it's nice that the two of us got to have this discussion XD
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