The Secrets Beneath by Sally Fell - pt Ifiorenza_aOctober 1 2015, 19:20:37 UTC
I love the picture you went with; it's perfect for the story :0)
As I shall say again about another fic, this got off to a rocky start for me. Only a couple of pages in and I was already struggling, it seemed, as you point out, to be developing along very formulaic lines; a gruffly off limits Bodie just waiting to be melted by an irresistibly feisty Doyle. Real B picture stuff.
In addition to which, it seemed to be riffing on some sort of Lady Chatterley theme, with Bodie all tricked out like a latter day Mellors, and I had to wonder what kind of heat wave they were having which had Dr Doyle in shorts and Bodie in a tweed suit? 'Doyle snorted, taking in the tweed suit, checked shirt and leather brogues worn by the land agent and then looking down in amusement at his own scruffy t-shirt and shorts.'
I had begun to think I had inadvertently stumbled into some kind of bucolic steampunk wonderland, where the only method of long distance communication was the telegram. 'Dan advancing across the field towards him, a sheet of paper
( ... )
The Secrets Beneath by Sally Fell - pt IIfiorenza_aOctober 1 2015, 19:23:16 UTC
I also appreciated the author's call and answer approach in such instances as this: 'Bodie allowed himself a rueful smile as he wondered which of them would win if Doyle ever had to make a choice between him and the dig. Would he find himself taking second place to a muddy field? He suspected that it would be a close-run thing.' Interesting, because by this stage in the story Bodie has already made it clear that he has made a choice, he won't move to Oxford with Doyle, and Doyle accepts that Bodie will stay on the estate, 'taking second place'. This call is then answered by Doyle after he returns from Oxford to be with the injured Bodie: '“What about your family? And your job?” he asked, trying to keep his voice steady but not succeeding. “It’d tear you apart if you had to move away from here. You love this place.” Bodie’s expression softened as he gazed steadily into Doyle’s eyes. He lifted their joined hands to his face and brushed Doyle’s knuckles across his lips. “I love you more.”'Which brings me to another point I believe
( ... )
RE: The Secrets Beneath by Sally Fell - pt IIbyslantedlightOctober 1 2015, 22:28:02 UTC
nor are we told what harm Deakin does Doyle which impels Dan and Alison to take 'it upon themselves to look out for me. Self-appointed guardian angels' I took that just to be ordinary emotional harm after a break-up when one half turns out to be a bit of a bastard for whatever reason - we see Doyle cut up about various people who turn out to have betrayed him in the eps (Shelley in HtN, comes to mind) and even about Ann Holly who didn't betray him, because despite everything he decided he was going to love her, a bit like Doyle did with Deakin's sexual chemistry here in the story. So yeah, Rick's perhaps a bit too evil, but not in a way that's unlike the various girlfriends-who-turn-out-to-be-the-villains/conduits-to-the-villains in the eps.
To me, it seems improbable to the point of implausibility that, despite Doyle being momentarily suspicious enough of Bodie ... no one thinks to put Doyle's practically moustache twirling, vindictive, ex-boyfriendBut Bodie's a stranger - they've not known him long, and he was aggressively against
( ... )
RE: The Secrets Beneath by Sally Fell - pt IIfiorenza_aOctober 1 2015, 23:11:18 UTC
Deakin; I just find it hard to believe that a normal break up would lead to a grown man being 'adopted' by his mates. It must have been very rough, and a bit more meat on those bones would have made Deakin a bit more of a believable villain to me.
It's a good point that Deakin was previously known to the dig; but by this point Deakin is already persona non grata, and Doyle was ready to cry on Bodie's shoulder. I think the reveal should have come a little earlier.
Heat wave I still think it's odd, I have a tweed suit, Bodie would be feeling it. No mention is made of that
( ... )
RE: The Secrets Beneath by Sally Fell - pt IImoonlightmeadOctober 2 2015, 04:47:49 UTC
See, me here at last! But still on my phone and limited in patience with it, so despite your meaty reply,I must just pop in and ask, Charlton Heston, heh... The Warlord ?
This is one of my favourite Pros fics, and I think one of the reasons for that is how it rings so truly, both by being Bodie and Doyle themselves, in character from the series despite it being an AU, and because the external story is so well done. It's solidly written too, so there's nothing to distract me from the story itself, I could just curl up and enjoy the journey. I loved the detail of the archaeology - not enough to be dull, not a hint of look-how-much-research-I've-done in the author's voice, just enough background knowledge, lightly written, to know that its real - and of life in the nearby village and on the estate. It was a little odd at first to think of Bodie dressed in tweeds, but actually that's what series one Bodie would have worn in that AU situation, and when I thought of it like that it was with an oh yeah... kind of smile. *g* I liked Doyle as an archaeologist too, because that fits with wants-every-bit-of-the-puzzle-Doyle that we see in eps, working out the mystery and the thinkiness of things. And of
( ... )
aerial photos to volunteers-in-place-digging fiorenza_aOctober 1 2015, 22:15:31 UTC
I wondered about that, but I took it that the significance of the find, along with Doyle and the team's enthusiasm, drummed up sufficient diggers to at least get test pits or something of the sort going, if not a full dig.
These days, you usually expect that sort of speed with a threatened site, inner city development, for example, working between the wrecking ball and the new build.
Either way, I didn't find it particularly jarring - the site's supposed to be another Fishbourne, if not better, I would have expected some 'special treatment', my only surprise is that the media didn't turn up.
RE: aerial photos to volunteers-in-place-diggingbyslantedlightOctober 1 2015, 22:35:45 UTC
Big finds are usually a three ring circus. Only when people are told that something's a big find. It can take years until a dig appears in the papers, even these days, even when there's a major discovery made. Too much well-we-won't-be-able-to-tell-until for the media, they don't want to know until someone's prepared to go out on a limb with we-have-evidence-that... Tony Robinson and that ridiculous Bonekickers are just a wee bit fast-paced compared to the real thing... *g*
you usually expect that sort of speed with a threatened site, inner city development, for example, working between the wrecking ball and the new build Yeah, but that kind of rescue dig wasn't par-for-the-course back then. Now developers have tame archaeologists on hand to start with, but that's relatively new practice. And even when there is a find it's got to be exceptional to start this kind of full-scale dig. And it's definitely not how university digs tend to work, even now
( ... )
Don't talk to me about Bonekickers, absolutely derivative drivel from the word go; and an insult to just about every IQ watching! I can only assume the entire cast was acting under duress, there is no other reason for respectable acting talent to be involved in such mind rot.
At least Relic Hunter had the good grace to have no pretensions and, if not that historically rigorous, knew how to entertain. I don't mind bubble gum tv, so long as it knows it's bubble gum tv.
Three Ring Circus I was thinking of the original Fishbourne (and perhaps, if I'm honest, more of Sutton Hoo), big finds are treated differently. Although to be fair, it might not yet have got out. There didn't seem to be much interest from the locals, the metal detectorists were a put up job, so they don't count.
Ah, I really planned to wax lyrical about how much I love this fic - it's an early and enduring favourite of mine - but I'm afraid I've only got time for the condensed version for the moment!
As others have noted above, the lads' voices ring beautifully true here. Their politics too, seem to me a good fit for the lads in canon - Doyle's anti-establishment streak and the way Bodie on the other hand is so comfortable with working within a traditional hierarchy. And the relationship just feels real and unforced - I can really believe in it
( ... )
time-stamp or a sequelfiorenza_aOctober 1 2015, 23:48:16 UTC
You know, I would never have read this story if it hadn't been for the Reading Room (doffs cap to BSL and nypagan); as I said it got off to a fairly bad start with me, but I'm glad I stuck with it.
Left to my own devices, I would have just thought, formulaic AU, not for me, bring on the capris.
But I promised myself I would try and read everything that was recc'd, to gain an insight into how other folk do.
And although the AU side of things left me, as I say, lukewarm, I thought the love story was very well done. So, I too, would have liked to know how Bodie coped with his family and his fish-out-of-water lifestyle with Doyle. Bodie's been so closeted and Doyle has been so open. It would be lovely to see those tensions play out, with or without the capris!
RE: time-stamp or a sequelheliophile_oxonOctober 2 2015, 09:49:35 UTC
Bodie's been so closeted and Doyle has been so open. It would be lovely to see those tensions play out, Yes, there's a lot to explore here! And because the setting, the local people are very present (I think, even if we've only met a couple of them individually) I wonder how things would go down. Not necessarily in expected ways, with plenty of variation. (clearly Tom, Bodie's assistant, is ok with it - but what about everyone else?).
but what about everyone else? fiorenza_aOctober 2 2015, 23:53:36 UTC
It would be good to see Bodie's choice to remain in the closet vindicated and Doyle's choice to be out and proud in his own milieu equally so, and then see them come to terms with the truth of each other's lives, before going on to forge another one together.
I'd expect unexpected prejudice amongst Doyle's circle and unexpected acceptance amongst Bodie's and the full gamut in between.
If I thought I could do the job myself, I'd be tempted :0)
I’d read and enjoyed this story when it was posted a few years ago and because it was long, I didn’t think I’d get the chance to read it all again and thought I’d just skim over it reminding myself, but lo and behold I found myself devouring it page by page, totally immersed again in the world of ‘the dig’ - their world - and as so often happens when I’ve finished a story I’ve loved, really missing them and this world (sometimes it’s good to get out of London...). I love AU’s and felt Doyle was a convincing, slightly alternative archaeologist - not that I’ve met many but it’s how I imagine one of them to be... if I met him. Alternative in some ways (as only university teachers can get away with being) but also slightly edgy and under pressure given all the time constraints and finance problems/responsibilities which go hand in hand with a major dig and one which looks like becoming a new ‘Fishbourne’ i.e. pure Doyle but one who's been magically transformed into something else, very cleverly done. And I thought the author got
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Bodie in his tweedsfiorenza_aOctober 3 2015, 00:13:45 UTC
You're right about the weather, but the story seems to suggest exceptional heat, hence the crop markings. The summer of '76 did a lot for aerial archaeology.
Bodie would have to be very cold blooded to favour Tweed and brogues in T-shirt and shorts weather. (For some reason I see Doyle's shorts as skimpy denim cut downs...)
Although there are lighter weight tweeds he might have gone for, and I agree that he is likely to have chosen something traditionally formal for the role he occupied, but not a business suit, which wouldn't stand the strain. So perhaps it's not so odd a choice, but I still struggle to see it.
RE: Bodie in his tweedsnypaganOctober 3 2015, 10:44:31 UTC
I think the tweed and brogues are a uniform of sorts for Bodie as the estate manager. If he was meeting Doyle and company at 11 am, he may have been returning from visiting the tenants. If he drove, he may not have been too hot or sweaty that early in the morning. Then he could walk across the field, over the fence, meet with Doyle, then stalk off. I doubt he wore them all day long, just when he was trying to make an impression.
make an impressionfiorenza_aOctober 3 2015, 11:13:47 UTC
Funny, because I've never seen Bodie as the sort who would need to, I'd be more inclined to see him as the sort whose authority is innate.
I see him as dressing smartly for the reasons I see in canon, natural conservatism underpinned by military habits.
I'm more inclined to shooting2kill's view that practicality drives his wardrobe choices. And I don't really see him as the sort to build in an unnecessary change of clothes during the day, I see him more as picking something he can wear all day first thing.
But if you see things differently, that just goes to show what I always think, that we all bring something of our own to the stories we read. Which is just as well, or it would make the Reading Room a pointless exercise and no fun at all! :0)
Comments 97
As I shall say again about another fic, this got off to a rocky start for me. Only a couple of pages in and I was already struggling, it seemed, as you point out, to be developing along very formulaic lines; a gruffly off limits Bodie just waiting to be melted by an irresistibly feisty Doyle. Real B picture stuff.
In addition to which, it seemed to be riffing on some sort of Lady Chatterley theme, with Bodie all tricked out like a latter day Mellors, and I had to wonder what kind of heat wave they were having which had Dr Doyle in shorts and Bodie in a tweed suit? 'Doyle snorted, taking in the tweed suit, checked shirt and leather brogues worn by the land agent and then looking down in amusement at his own scruffy t-shirt and shorts.'
I had begun to think I had inadvertently stumbled into some kind of bucolic steampunk wonderland, where the only method of long distance communication was the telegram. 'Dan advancing across the field towards him, a sheet of paper ( ... )
Reply
'Bodie allowed himself a rueful smile as he wondered which of them would win if Doyle ever had to make a choice between him and the dig. Would he find himself taking second place to a muddy field? He suspected that it would be a close-run thing.'
Interesting, because by this stage in the story Bodie has already made it clear that he has made a choice, he won't move to Oxford with Doyle, and Doyle accepts that Bodie will stay on the estate, 'taking second place'.
This call is then answered by Doyle after he returns from Oxford to be with the injured Bodie:
'“What about your family? And your job?” he asked, trying to keep his voice steady but not succeeding. “It’d tear you apart if you had to move away from here. You love this place.”
Bodie’s expression softened as he gazed steadily into Doyle’s eyes. He lifted their joined hands to his face and brushed Doyle’s knuckles across his lips. “I love you more.”'Which brings me to another point I believe ( ... )
Reply
I took that just to be ordinary emotional harm after a break-up when one half turns out to be a bit of a bastard for whatever reason - we see Doyle cut up about various people who turn out to have betrayed him in the eps (Shelley in HtN, comes to mind) and even about Ann Holly who didn't betray him, because despite everything he decided he was going to love her, a bit like Doyle did with Deakin's sexual chemistry here in the story. So yeah, Rick's perhaps a bit too evil, but not in a way that's unlike the various girlfriends-who-turn-out-to-be-the-villains/conduits-to-the-villains in the eps.
To me, it seems improbable to the point of implausibility that, despite Doyle being momentarily suspicious enough of Bodie ... no one thinks to put Doyle's practically moustache twirling, vindictive, ex-boyfriendBut Bodie's a stranger - they've not known him long, and he was aggressively against ( ... )
Reply
It's a good point that Deakin was previously known to the dig; but by this point Deakin is already persona non grata, and Doyle was ready to cry on Bodie's shoulder. I think the reveal should have come a little earlier.
Heat wave I still think it's odd, I have a tweed suit, Bodie would be feeling it. No mention is made of that ( ... )
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I wondered about that, but I took it that the significance of the find, along with Doyle and the team's enthusiasm, drummed up sufficient diggers to at least get test pits or something of the sort going, if not a full dig.
These days, you usually expect that sort of speed with a threatened site, inner city development, for example, working between the wrecking ball and the new build.
Either way, I didn't find it particularly jarring - the site's supposed to be another Fishbourne, if not better, I would have expected some 'special treatment', my only surprise is that the media didn't turn up.
Big finds are usually a three ring circus.
Reply
Only when people are told that something's a big find. It can take years until a dig appears in the papers, even these days, even when there's a major discovery made. Too much well-we-won't-be-able-to-tell-until for the media, they don't want to know until someone's prepared to go out on a limb with we-have-evidence-that... Tony Robinson and that ridiculous Bonekickers are just a wee bit fast-paced compared to the real thing... *g*
you usually expect that sort of speed with a threatened site, inner city development, for example, working between the wrecking ball and the new build
Yeah, but that kind of rescue dig wasn't par-for-the-course back then. Now developers have tame archaeologists on hand to start with, but that's relatively new practice. And even when there is a find it's got to be exceptional to start this kind of full-scale dig. And it's definitely not how university digs tend to work, even now ( ... )
Reply
Don't talk to me about Bonekickers, absolutely derivative drivel from the word go; and an insult to just about every IQ watching! I can only assume the entire cast was acting under duress, there is no other reason for respectable acting talent to be involved in such mind rot.
At least Relic Hunter had the good grace to have no pretensions and, if not that historically rigorous, knew how to entertain. I don't mind bubble gum tv, so long as it knows it's bubble gum tv.
Three Ring Circus I was thinking of the original Fishbourne (and perhaps, if I'm honest, more of Sutton Hoo), big finds are treated differently. Although to be fair, it might not yet have got out. There didn't seem to be much interest from the locals, the metal detectorists were a put up job, so they don't count.
Rescue dig; absolutely, my very point :0)
Reply
As others have noted above, the lads' voices ring beautifully true here. Their politics too, seem to me a good fit for the lads in canon - Doyle's anti-establishment streak and the way Bodie on the other hand is so comfortable with working within a traditional hierarchy. And the relationship just feels real and unforced - I can really believe in it ( ... )
Reply
You know, I would never have read this story if it hadn't been for the Reading Room (doffs cap to BSL and nypagan); as I said it got off to a fairly bad start with me, but I'm glad I stuck with it.
Left to my own devices, I would have just thought, formulaic AU, not for me, bring on the capris.
But I promised myself I would try and read everything that was recc'd, to gain an insight into how other folk do.
And although the AU side of things left me, as I say, lukewarm, I thought the love story was very well done. So, I too, would have liked to know how Bodie coped with his family and his fish-out-of-water lifestyle with Doyle. Bodie's been so closeted and Doyle has been so open. It would be lovely to see those tensions play out, with or without the capris!
Reply
Yes, there's a lot to explore here! And because the setting, the local people are very present (I think, even if we've only met a couple of them individually) I wonder how things would go down. Not necessarily in expected ways, with plenty of variation. (clearly Tom, Bodie's assistant, is ok with it - but what about everyone else?).
Reply
It would be good to see Bodie's choice to remain in the closet vindicated and Doyle's choice to be out and proud in his own milieu equally so, and then see them come to terms with the truth of each other's lives, before going on to forge another one together.
I'd expect unexpected prejudice amongst Doyle's circle and unexpected acceptance amongst Bodie's and the full gamut in between.
If I thought I could do the job myself, I'd be tempted :0)
Reply
Reply
You're right about the weather, but the story seems to suggest exceptional heat, hence the crop markings. The summer of '76 did a lot for aerial archaeology.
Bodie would have to be very cold blooded to favour Tweed and brogues in T-shirt and shorts weather. (For some reason I see Doyle's shorts as skimpy denim cut downs...)
Although there are lighter weight tweeds he might have gone for, and I agree that he is likely to have chosen something traditionally formal for the role he occupied, but not a business suit, which wouldn't stand the strain. So perhaps it's not so odd a choice, but I still struggle to see it.
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Funny, because I've never seen Bodie as the sort who would need to, I'd be more inclined to see him as the sort whose authority is innate.
I see him as dressing smartly for the reasons I see in canon, natural conservatism underpinned by military habits.
I'm more inclined to shooting2kill's view that practicality drives his wardrobe choices. And I don't really see him as the sort to build in an unnecessary change of clothes during the day, I see him more as picking something he can wear all day first thing.
But if you see things differently, that just goes to show what I always think, that we all bring something of our own to the stories we read. Which is just as well, or it would make the Reading Room a pointless exercise and no fun at all! :0)
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