The Reading Room -- NOVEMBER by Sebastian

[jgraeme2007]

http://www.thecircuitarchive.com/tca/archive/18/november.html

Or

http://www.oblique-publications.net/archives/2note/4_2Qnovemberredone.pdf

Original Publication: ...As Two £3 Notes, Oblique Publications, 1991

I have a special fondness for Discovered in a Graveyard stories. Partly because I think the episode is one of the best and most complex (even if

Comments

[kindkit]

I wasn't sure I'd comment, since I haven't really been participating in these discussions before now. But since the first commenter hated the story, I have to pipe up to say I liked it a lot. The early part isn't very successful, I think, but as the emotional situation gets more fraught and complicated (starting when they pick up the girls in the bar) it just gets better and better.

To me, the tension between them, the way that they're reluctant to acknowledge or act on what they feel and each half-angry at the other one for making him feel it, the way Bodie's haunted by death and Doyle feels emasculated by his near-death and unwilling to show any fear--that all feels right. These are not uncomplicated men, and there's a lot of darkness in them. There has to be, given the job they chose and the things it makes them do. The flaring tempers and sudden quarrels that are just as suddenly ended ring true to Bodie and Doyle's canonical relationship, too. They make the moments of affection, of communion, all the more powerful. I love this

[kiwisue]

To me, the tension between them, the way that they're reluctant to acknowledge or act on what they feel and each half-angry at the other one for making him feel it, the way Bodie's haunted by death and Doyle feels emasculated by his near-death and unwilling to show any fear--that all feels right. These are not uncomplicated men, and there's a lot of darkness in them.

Yes. THIS.

[jgraeme2007]

Yes. THIS.

And this is what makes these such fascinating characters to write and read about. The complexities and contradictions. They are giggling boys and ruthless killers. They are moral men who will do immoral things. They tease each other and clown for each other and they lash out, even punch the other. Far more interesting (and realistic) I think.

[jgraeme2007]

I wasn't sure I'd comment, since I haven't really been participating in these discussions before now.

Thank you for offering your insights then. It's great hearing new voices (or any voices!) in these discussions, and I think the best conversations about these stories are the ones with a variety of opinions.

But since the first commenter hated the story, I have to pipe up to say I liked it a lot. The early part isn't very successful, I think,

I kind of like the weird contrast of the pink coccoon room and the bleak outside and dangerous world.

but as the emotional situation gets more fraught and complicated (starting when they pick up the girls in the bar) it just gets better and better.

Yes, we begin to see how really twisted and tangled things have become between them.

To me, the tension between them, the way that they're reluctant to acknowledge or act on what they feel and each half-angry at the other one for making him feel it, the way Bodie's haunted by death and Doyle feels emasculated by his near-death and unwilling to

[jgraeme2007]

The ending is painful, because they'd come so far and then they're fucked over by CI5 bullshit and it almost destroys them.

Yes. Doyle's moment of epiphany comes just a few minutes too late.

But that, too, is true to the canon (and I respect Sebastian for not whitewashing the brutal and morally problematic nature of CI5's work). And then, amazingly, they manage to get past it--Bodie reaches out, and Doyle goes to him. Despite his premonitions, Bodie is the optimistic one throughout the story,

Yes, I love Bodie in this one. This is very similar to my own reading of Bodie: a pragmatist, a ruthless pragmatist but his achilles heel is Doyle. And the fact that Doyle seems slightly off-kilter here makes sense given that he's trying to come to terms with his recent ressurection.

Bodie and the way Bodie feels about him is partly what scares him and partly his talisman.

Doyle remembered something else, and smiled.Is he remembering Bodie crying in the hospital, telling him he loved him? Or is he remembering the night of sex that he

[kindkit]

I don't know that I'd even call it toughness, although I agree that Bodie in particular has a certain resilience. But I think they're both pretty damaged, and what looks like toughness is often . . . scar tissue? Possibly a metaphor carried too far, but hopefully you see what I mean.

[jgraeme2007]

I don't know that I'd even call it toughness, although I agree that Bodie in particular has a certain resilience. But I think they're both pretty damaged, and what looks like toughness is often . . . scar tissue? Possibly a metaphor carried too far, but hopefully you see what I mean.

I think they require a certain mental toughness to be as good at their jobs as they are, and mental toughness is a trait I appreciate in characters, so possibly that's why I see that.

But also I see them as complicated and conflicted, I see them as forces for good but with a dark side -- and I don't see any relationship between them being a quick or easy thing. Not that I can't appreciate a simple and sweet story on occasion, but the stories that stick with me are the ones that address that push-pull between them.

It's late and I'm tired so I'm probably not explaining well, but I think I see what you mean.