End Times

Apr 12, 2011 07:14

Last week the sermon at church was about this being the end times ( Read more... )

end times, bible, christian

Leave a comment

susannah April 13 2011, 13:57:23 UTC
"During this time us Christians will be persecuted and murdered in the belief they are serving God when they do it, like Muslims do in Pakistan and the middle east"

...or like Crusaders did, with the mandate and wishes of the Church, "believing they were serving God when they did it"...

Also, I am not aware of any serious seismologist who believes earthquakes are any more serious today than they probably were at the time of Jesus, or thousands of years before.

What is more likely is that some preachers see disasters as 'hooks' for their end time fears, or end time preaching, and they latch on to things like the Japan earthquake, as a sign of the end, whereas actually this 'latching on' may be just a sign of their own anxiety or subconscious longing for the end to come to do away with a nasty world.

I don't think we should draw these conclusions.

I have no idea of the time when the world will end. Which seems OK when I read scripture.

We don't need to latch onto every latest disaster as a sign it is here.

There have been disasters and persecutions all through history.

I vote we get on with living our lives, and leave the end to God, but live for God "as if our own lives and end-time were tomorrow" because the end-time of our individual life may very well come (based on 2000 years of Christian history) sooner than the end of the world.

Living lives of faith and love and service is something we can usefully get on with, instead of being impatient for the end.

We have the gift of life today. The real issue is to live it, and give our lives in love and service.

This may well, also, be the remit for Christians another 2000 years from now.

And disasters may be happening then as well.

And to the Christians 4000 years from now, and 10000 years, and so on.

The remit remains: offer yourselves as living sacrifices... take up your Cross and follow Christ... love God... love your neighbour...

Rather than projecting the label of 'doom' on some anticipated end times currency, perhaps we should focus, as Christians, on today-times poverty and debt.

Perhaps it is more constructive to do something practical to make the world better, rather than to project fear and loathing (and recoil from the world) onto a scenario that may not ever happen in our lifetimes.

Such projections can become distractions, because they may be ill-informed and inaccurate, and have been in the past.

I'm sure your preacher is well-meaning... but it's sort of counter-scientific when he alleges a seismology that flies in the face of what seems evident: that the surface of our world is on tectonic plates, and has been for millions of years, and by very nature, there are earthquakes and volcanoes - which have often in the past been far more violent than today, without life coming to an end. Earthquakes is just business as usual.

Reply

torbenite April 14 2011, 14:11:38 UTC
Fair enough.

...or like Crusaders did, with the mandate and wishes of the Church, "believing they were serving God when they did it"...

Thing is it a few hundred years (over 500 if Im not mistaken) since there was a crusade.

Not many christians I know go round blowing up others and murdering muslims because they don't believe in Jesus Christ.

Reply

pastorlenny April 14 2011, 15:13:25 UTC
I think the US military has blown up and murdered Muslims a bit more recently than that.

Reply

torbenite April 15 2011, 05:32:54 UTC
I dont get the connection. The God of the US is not Jesus Christ. Maybe it was once upon a time, but not these days. Im not american but I've never heard politicians talking about Jesus Christ the saviour.

Its besides the point: The "war on terror" is not a holy war; it has nothing to do with Jesus Christ but rather (apparently or supposedly) "protecting the lives of americans".

Reply

pastorlenny April 15 2011, 10:25:48 UTC
The US rather explicitly identifies itself as Christian. And if you don't think Obama and Bush have identified themselves as Christians, you haven't been listening.

You also haven't been listening if you think these wars are only about "protecting the lives of americans." They are also positioned as wars of liberation.

Reply

torbenite April 16 2011, 17:19:56 UTC
*grin*

Oh palese. So now the war in Iraq and Afganistan is a religeous one? Hahaha.

Reply

pastorlenny April 17 2011, 01:57:59 UTC
Let's try this again.

T: Christians don't kill unbelievers.
L: Yes, we do.
T: American politicians don't confess Christ
L: Yes, they do.
T: Those aren't religious wars.

See how this works? You say something false. I point out that it's false. Then you make another false statement -- rather than dealing with your previously asserted falsehood.

Reply

evilref April 19 2011, 14:58:58 UTC
But was it because they didn't believe in Jesus Christ? (Hint: Most Moslems do -- they just don't think Jesus was/is God.)

Reply

pastorlenny April 19 2011, 15:04:05 UTC
That would be considered unbelief according to orthodox Christian creed.

Reply

evilref April 20 2011, 13:53:44 UTC
Didn't you just fail to respond to the original question?

Did the US military blow up moslems because they "didn't believe in" Jesus Christ?

Reply

pastorlenny April 20 2011, 14:04:17 UTC
No, I clarified a flaw in how the question was constructed. That is something other than a failure to respond. It is actually the most appropriate response.

Reply

evilref April 21 2011, 10:44:37 UTC
Did the US military blow up moslems because they "didn't believe in" Jesus Christ?

Reply

pastorlenny April 21 2011, 13:12:11 UTC
I'm not sure the best solution to asking a poorly constructed question is to simply ask it again.

But I'd think it's rather obvious that American Christians do not place like value on the lives of "unbelievers."

Reply

evilref April 26 2011, 09:11:17 UTC
I think it is rather obvious that Americans don't place like value on the lives of foreigners, regardless of religion.

Can you offer evidence that the recent US wars in the Middle East are motiviated by religion, as opposed to (say) oil, or any such similar cause?

Reply

pastorlenny April 26 2011, 13:03:04 UTC
I'm not sure why anyone who knows anything about history would use the expression "as opposed to." Wars are typically caused by a complex of geo-political, economic, cultural, and psycho-social factors.

Reply


Leave a comment

Up