The Roman Catholic Church

[mintogrubb]

When Jesus ascended into heaven , He left one Apostolic church behind him- not a ragged bunch of bickering and contesting factions. The church had unity for hundreds of years, until the Great Schism, when the eastern and western halves of the Church broke up

Comments

[catholic_heart]

Since this post is so wrought with grave misunderstandings and falsehoods, there's really not much to respond to. So I'll just leave you with a few links to better educate yourself. If you'd like to make a new post after bettering your understanding, that would be fine.

Doctrine of Infallibility

Galileo

A Rabbi's Perspective on Pius XII and the help he gave to the Jews during the Holocaust

As for the indulgences, that's a gross oversimplification of the causes for the Reformation. I'd suggest reading Alistair McGrath's Reformation Thought: An Introduction and maybe Richard Marius' Martin Luther: The Christian Between God and Death.

[theendless]

Great response. :)

[paedraggaidin]

Amen.

[lordhellebore]

Very interesting, that last link. Thanks for posting them.

[catholic_heart]

:-) I'm looking forward to the author's book to come out (if it's not already) about the relationships of both Piux XII and John Paul II with the Jews. It should be very good.

[pastorlenny]

John Paul II never even returned my phone calls.

[mintogrubb]

thank you for the links - there is an awful lot here in just the first one. i will read each fully before making any further response.

Since this post is so wrought with grave misunderstandings and falsehoods, there's really not much to respond to.

I sense that some feel a sense of outrage at what I have said. they m,ay indeed be grave misunderstandings and falsehoods, and if they are I shall be quite happy to renounce them.

Pope Pius, I have already learned did not oppose Hitler openly, but did effectively save many Jewish lives by working against the Nazis in a covert fashion.

perhaps it's too much to ask of you to defend the Spanish Inquisition and the crusades as well, but i hope to be back on these, once I have read them.

Right now, i have taken a brief glance at each, but I will return and respond to each link in a future OP, God willing.

[catholic_heart]

If it's come across as outrage then please understand, there is nothing of that at all. In fact, there is no emotion whatsoever. Perhaps a little weariness, which is why I'm not inclined to "set the record straight," as you said in another comment. The resources are available, the facts are there. I can always point you to excellent sources of reading, but I just am weary of attempting to "set the record straight." I honestly can't recommend the McGrath book strongly enough if you want to understand the Reformation and the Catholic response. It's very even handed (I honestly have no idea of McGrath is Catholic or not) and extremely well researched, and at the end of each chapter it provides a list of further reading

[mintogrubb]

I have faith because I believe in Christ, and believe that the Church is where He wants us, despite our weakness. So even if you do decide to make another post asking for a defense of crusades or inquisition, I won't really care to participate,This is very close to my own position. the difference is, i would say that Christ's love for us is such that although Protestants and Catholics made an extreme mess of the situation in Northern Ireland ( and other places) that god is with both sides. Neither were where he wanted them to be ( at war with each other) but the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were trying to lead both parties on the road to reconciliation and peace

[chaeri]

I don't have faith because Catholics have always behaved well. I have faith because I believe in Christ, and believe that the Church is where He wants us, despite our weakness

very well said!

[martiancyclist]

The Spanish Inquisition was an attempt by the Catholic Church to make sure that, if people are going to be executed for heresy, that non-heretics not be executed. At the time, civil authorities disliked the inquisition, as it had the unfortunate habit of acquitting people, even if the local baron personally detested the accused.

The Crusades were a good idea taken too far, and an excellent example of why noblemen shouldn't be let out unsupervised.

(And I have yet to figure out why Christian armies invading majority-Christian countries which had been under Muslim rule, followed by the Muslims successfully drive the Christian armies out, once again ruling the majority-Christian countries is something that Muslims complain about. It is like the Catholics demanding that the Muslim world apologize for the Spanish Reconquista.)

[efriden]

It messes with their idea of the world being divided into two houses: that of Islam and that of "the Sword". Plus it makes them feel inferior, which also messes with Muslim theology.

Excellent funny comments, by the way.

[pastorlenny]

He's the best, right?

[efriden]

'Aight!