Your understanding of the Eucharist is contained within the Catholic: yes, it is a remembrance - but not only. Your position on the communion seems to be close to the Zwinglian one, so (officially at least) not only Catholic and Orthodox, but also Episcopalian (Anglican), Presbyterian (Calvinist) and Lutheran churches would disagree with you.
Jesus went to the Father to send us the Spirit at the Ascension. When He died, He descended into the realm of Death to free the righteous in bondage there and defeat death for all of us.
Belief in doctrines do not save us - belief in Jesus does.
I'm a Presbyterian and when we take the Eucharist it's in remembrance, not that it becomes the body of Christ. "Take this in REMEMBRANCE of me." So don't make blanket statements like the one you just made above.
What the OP and you describe is not the Calvinist sacramentology, which Presbyterians (in theory) should adhere to according to the Westminster confession, but the Zwinglian (which is held by Baptists et.c
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THANK YOU! I'm a Presbyterian and I am tired of people (including some Presbyterians) attributing the Zwinglian view to the Presbyterian church. Calvin advocated no such thing. :P
You're welcome! As I've said elsewhere in this thread, I've left most of my unnuanced anti-Calvinism behind as I've become more Catholic.
The fifth sola (more specifically Calvinist, since Lutherans don't normally count it in) is of course more or less the same as the Jesuit motto "Ad majorem Gloria Dei"!
Well, I appreciate anyone who leaves unnuanced Calvinism behind. ;) I don't mind people disagreeing with Calvin (granted, I may disagree with them), it's the stereotypes that get bandied about which irk me no end. Unfortunately I think the same can be said for stereotyping of Roman Catholics and others. Most people just don't want to take the time to educate themselves. :P
How come most Lutherans don't include Solo deo gloria?
I don't know why it doesn't play any part in Lutheranism really. My hypothesis is, all the other four solas have to do with salvation/justification whereas the fifth is perhaps seen as obvious? Or it might be seen as too closely connected to the Calvinist version(s) of double predestination (which is my REALLY big issue with Calvinism, bigger even than "spiritual only" real presence)?
May God bless you and keep you - all three of you! I hope the pregnancy has been OK. I have two children, a daughter of 2� and a son that was born on August 22.
Calvin: the Eucharist strengthens the spiritual bond between the believer on earth and Christ in heaven through the symbolic use of bread and wine.
Zwingli: the Eucharist is just in remembrance of Christ, who cannot be more spiritually present during communion than He already is whenever "two or three" believers come together.
I don't see any disagreement or contradiction between these two statements.
Then maybe the Westminster confession quoted above is clearer than I am? The question is: is Christ present in a special way in the bread and the wine or not? To a Zwinglian, the Eucharist is just done because Christ told us to, not because He gives Himself to us in it. To a Calvinist, the elements are symbols of Christs body and blood and a real spiritual connection, to a Zwinglian they're just bread and wine.
OK, maybe old skool baptism and charismatic baptism (pentecostalism) differs on that point too then. I was told they didn't.
And yet you failed to see the difference between the stances the way I formulated them to begin with! How could my first definition of ZWINGLIANISM be misunderstood? I thought it was the comparison that was unclear.
Jesus went to the Father to send us the Spirit at the Ascension. When He died, He descended into the realm of Death to free the righteous in bondage there and defeat death for all of us.
Belief in doctrines do not save us - belief in Jesus does.
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"Take this in REMEMBRANCE of me."
So don't make blanket statements like the one you just made above.
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The fifth sola (more specifically Calvinist, since Lutherans don't normally count it in) is of course more or less the same as the Jesuit motto "Ad majorem Gloria Dei"!
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How come most Lutherans don't include Solo deo gloria?
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I hope the pregnancy has been OK. I have two children, a daughter of 2� and a son that was born on August 22.
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Zwingli: the Eucharist is just in remembrance of Christ, who cannot be more spiritually present during communion than He already is whenever "two or three" believers come together.
I don't see any disagreement or contradiction between these two statements.
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And yet you failed to see the difference between the stances the way I formulated them to begin with! How could my first definition of ZWINGLIANISM be misunderstood? I thought it was the comparison that was unclear.
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