Should Women Submit?
The previous post gives a link to an online discussion about 'Women Submitting' at GodlyGals. The prevalent views at that forum were that women should submit to their husbands. I don't agree.
Of course, Jesus submitted to many things (including death for our sakes) so the idea of submission and service is not integrally wrong.
However, I have a problem with submission that identifies and singles out one group of people because of their gender, as if in some way women are less-equipped to take responsible leadership decisions than men, and are in some sense weaker.
I also have a problem because Paul tries to justify his views theologically on the basis of scripture that plenty of christians feel should not be taken literally.
I have two daughters and I would be delighted if both they and their future husbands had an attitude of submission to eachother, provided that was equally two-way. But I expect my daughters to be afforded total respect as people, regardless of their gender, and to have just as much authority in their marriage as their partners.
To consider the outdated assumptions of Paul, on which he bases his views, take a look at this: "Man did not come from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Cor 11:8)
He takes Genesis as literal, and uses it to justify the subordination of women.
And in 1 Timothy 2:12-14: "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. She must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived. It was the woman who was deceived first and became a sinner."
I have a massive problem with this view of women as being responsible for sin, being made secondary for man etc. Actually we were all descended from apes. They came first. Does that mean we should submit to them? Of course not. And do we think women really are responsible for the original sin?
Through history women have been far more sinned against by men, than the other way round.
I do not want my daughters to grow up in relationships where their male partner has the last word, just because of their genders. They are people. And yes, I believe they are equals. I don't want them to grow up in some medieval society run by mullahs or chauvinists that think that women are somehow subordinate.
If Adam and Eve were not actually created separate from evolution, with Eve committing the first sin in a perfect world - if these events were just someone trying to make sense of their world prior to Darwin - then Paul's theological justification is spurious (because untrue) and perhaps 'female subordination' is something we should move on from as well.
But submit to one another, serve one another... I totally endorse that.
What do people here think?
+
Richard (S)
Of course, Jesus submitted to many things (including death for our sakes) so the idea of submission and service is not integrally wrong.
However, I have a problem with submission that identifies and singles out one group of people because of their gender, as if in some way women are less-equipped to take responsible leadership decisions than men, and are in some sense weaker.
I also have a problem because Paul tries to justify his views theologically on the basis of scripture that plenty of christians feel should not be taken literally.
I have two daughters and I would be delighted if both they and their future husbands had an attitude of submission to eachother, provided that was equally two-way. But I expect my daughters to be afforded total respect as people, regardless of their gender, and to have just as much authority in their marriage as their partners.
To consider the outdated assumptions of Paul, on which he bases his views, take a look at this: "Man did not come from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Cor 11:8)
He takes Genesis as literal, and uses it to justify the subordination of women.
And in 1 Timothy 2:12-14: "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man. She must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived. It was the woman who was deceived first and became a sinner."
I have a massive problem with this view of women as being responsible for sin, being made secondary for man etc. Actually we were all descended from apes. They came first. Does that mean we should submit to them? Of course not. And do we think women really are responsible for the original sin?
Through history women have been far more sinned against by men, than the other way round.
I do not want my daughters to grow up in relationships where their male partner has the last word, just because of their genders. They are people. And yes, I believe they are equals. I don't want them to grow up in some medieval society run by mullahs or chauvinists that think that women are somehow subordinate.
If Adam and Eve were not actually created separate from evolution, with Eve committing the first sin in a perfect world - if these events were just someone trying to make sense of their world prior to Darwin - then Paul's theological justification is spurious (because untrue) and perhaps 'female subordination' is something we should move on from as well.
But submit to one another, serve one another... I totally endorse that.
What do people here think?
+
Richard (S)