Black Pirates, "Social Justice Warriors," and Sad Puppies

[chris_gerrib]

One of the many, many fine whines emitted at volume complaints of the Sad Puppies is that "social justice warriors" keep insisting on changing the races of people in order to advance the cause of social justice.

Then I was referred to this interesting article: black men and the black flag. Turns out that during the Age of Sail, lots of black men

Comments

[ext_3018476]

Do you actually have SP quotations to back up ANY of these assertions? I mean, I don't remember a whole heck of a lot of complaints about all those black pirates in... I dunno, Pirates of the Caribbean?

Actually, what "whitewashing" are you referencing right now? I certainly didn't grow up with the impression that all pirates were white. Heck, given that I actually had an education growing up, I'm aware that there were black/native slaveowners and white slaves in the Americas.

[chris_gerrib]

What "all those black pirates in the movie?" I saw one.

[ext_3018476]

http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/03_976.jpg

Seriously, there are at least 3 in just that one picture. From the first movie. There are several others, including the two prominent black women.

I'm begging to believe that you perceive cultural biases where none exist.

[chris_gerrib]

Here's a link hot of the presses

Money quote: Because reading about a dissatisfied whore while being subjected to a sermon on the importance of diversity in sexual orientation, race, and transgenderism - there's one black character mentioned in the book, and he's a real historical person.

[ext_3018476]

Who was obviously chosen *because he's black*. Or are you going to argue that he's there for some other reason?

[chris_gerrib]

obviously chosen *because he's black*. - So? He's a historical figure, in town in pursuit of a fugitive in an alternate-history Seattle. Why would his appearance, regardless of reason be a problem?

[ext_3018476]

Chris: 'One of the many, many fine whines emitted at volume complaints of the Sad Puppies is that "social justice warriors" keep insisting on changing the races of people in order to advance the cause of social justice.'

'obviously chosen *because he's black*. - So? He's a historical figure, in town in pursuit of a fugitive in an alternate-history Seattle. Why would his appearance, regardless of reason be a problem?'

Do you not see the very direct correlation between these statements?

And why, in your mind, is pointing out a tendency to do something equivalent to saying that it's a "problem?" We could certainly debate about whether or not it's problematic, but I'm fairly certain that your original assertion is something else entirely.

[chris_gerrib]

changing the races of people - except the author didn't change the race of anybody. She selected a historical person of interest and sent him somewhere plausible. Marshals chase fugitives, after all.

What is clearly desired is for her to not select a black Marshal.

tendency to do something equivalent to saying that it's a "problem?" - in this case, the tendency to whitewash history means that we, as a society, forget that not just whites participated in history. In short, whitewashing is the problem, and the only way to not whitewash is to actually put, where historically plausible, non-whites into history.

[ext_3018476]

And, in this instance, is is NOT historically plausible to have the single black U.S. Marshal in a place where he never went and never had any reason to go. But he was chosen... because he's black.

And I have yet to see any actual *evidence* of this supposed whitewashing of history. You have *claimed* that it exists over and over again, yet you have not been able to substantiate it other than by asserting that you only *remember* one black pirate in a movie that had several of them.

As stated elsewhere, I am coming to be of the opinion that you are projecting your own "whitewashing" personal habits onto others.

[chris_gerrib]

I'll make one more effort here, and then we'll have to agree to disagree. 60% of Blackbeard's crew was black, including the #2 man. Maybe 10% (if generous) of "Pirates of the Caribbean" cast is black. 100% of the cast of the previous umpteen pirate movies, going back to Errol Flynn, were white.

10-15% of George Washington's army was black, yet you don't see that reflected in fiction.

There's two (2) black characters in the book I'm discussing over on Vox Day, leader of the Sad Puppies, site. One of them, at least from the blurb, is "passing" as white. Yet I'm being told that merely having these two characters is implausible.

You're telling me that, in a work of fiction set in an era where individual marshals chased individual fugitives, it's implausible that one man with a 40-year career was ever in Seattle?

[ext_3018476]

"60% of Blackbeard's crew was black, including the #2 man. Maybe 10% (if generous) of "Pirates of the Caribbean" cast is black. 100% of the cast of the previous umpteen pirate movies, going back to Errol Flynn, were white

[chris_gerrib]

the 10-15% come from the US Army.

entire *cast* of a movie primarily about a bunch of people from Britain? I thought it was primarily about pirates, and set in a region and era where black pirates were heavily active.

Do I think Bear "just happened" to pick a black marshal? No. And it would have been easier for her to pick a generic white dude. She made an effort to un-whitewash history because she thought it needed un-whitewashing.

I don't see a big difference between VD and Torgersen, especially since VD is all over Torgersen's blog supporting Torgersen's picks.

[ext_3018476]

I'm done. You are completely incapable of admitting that you are wrong, despite it being demonstrated repeatedly.