I keep thinking about this, and haven't come up with much.
There are other open venue collaborative online roleplay venues, lots of play-by-post games with the occasional play-by-chat on the side. But it is not *as* immediate as a MUSH is all the time. Since they have a lower threshhold of involvement (i.e., you don't need to know anything about MUSH codes or objects to post on a forum), they tend to have a younger age group. And, with it, probably less quality roleplay and more silly.
There are probably open roleplay chat rooms out there. There were fifteen years ago, so I'm sure they haven't disappeared. But that loses all the structure of MUSHes. It's just people showing up, playing pretend for a bit, and then going away. The best compromise might be just a small play-by-chat game, with some PbP or PBEM aspects mixed in. This would be smaller, and the chat roleplay would be less frequent, but would remove the need to have some over-arcing admin staff to administer it or a special server. Smaller games do make for more closely crafted stories, though. I don't have the patience (or time) for online play anymore, but I don't think i could ever go back to that vast anonymity you get with a MUSH. Especially a well established one.
There are forums out there where people advertise games that they are organizing. If you are interested, I can try and find some.
I found a new MUSH. I left the other MUSH definitively. I should have known better than to make a parting shot on the LJ page, because they all came unglued at me. Then I removed all associated LJ accounts (deleted 'em) and reset my passwords to gibberish so I can't get tempted ever to log back in.
My only regret is that I did not leave earlier. Much earlier. When I realised I did not fit in, there. Or when I realised that nothing I said was ever going to be permitted to be true, even if I had logs. I was always going to be wrong. That's the way it goes. Tribes *act* like that. Once I was on the outside, I was always going to be on the outside.
It seems I was "unwilling to change". Actually, it's more likely I'm "unable to change". I'm a little more inflexible every year. It comes with age, unfortunately. I can only enjoy playing what I enjoy playing, and apparently that just doesn't mesh.
If you think about it, a MUSH is a microcosm of society. Sort of. Minus things like the ability to see that it's a real person you're cutting to ribbons. It's amazing, considering people can't even be nice in the name of fun, that nations and governments manage to survive for a few years, let alone a couple hundred years.
I'm sorry it turned ugly for you. I've had some bad fallings out with groups, and it's never fun.
I know what you mean about growing inflexibility, somewhat. As I've gotten older, I've gotten a better sense of what I like and don't like and it's harder for me to try things that look a little iffy. It burns me pretty regularly. I've missed out on some stuff that I ended up really liking when I finally gave it a shot. (I've also been proven right in my assumptions.)
More and more I try to recognize my resistance to change and try doing things that I'm resistant to. I find when I don't do that I start building walls against trying things new and start painting myself into a corner until nothing looks good anymore. =(
I could see MUSHes (and many other communities) being a microcosm of society. I think where it differs from larger institutions (like governments) is that there's usually more self-interest in maintaining something that provides you with security and money. A game that requires people to volunteer time is harder to maintain.
One of the more frustrating things is this: People seem to sincerely believe that if you just saw it their way, everything would be fine....and this assumes of course that you CAN see it their way (and never, of course, assumes that *they* might try to see things *your* way). It's like the person who informs you that "Math is easy!" and then proceeds to explain things in terms you don't understand. And when you say so, they say "But it's easy!" and explain it all over again, this time using different words. And you end up feeling stupid because you cannot follow them, and nothing you say can convince them that no, for YOU it is NOT easy.
I've had that conversation exactly. I was not any wiser about the math in question at the end of the discussion.
After all the yellings-at I got, I still don't know what the other people wanted. I got the point I wanted to say, "Why don't you just tell me what you want me to pose, so you will be happy? Because you're clearly not happy with what I can offer." I never, ever understood what was wanted. All I ever understood was that I was not capable of offering what was wanted.
Sadly, this echoes my experience with dealing with groups of people in RL, which was why I pretty much never had more than one friend at a time all through school. It hurts my...ego, sense of self, sense of individual worth, something....to know that after all these years, and 12 years of "socialization" in school, and being in the workplace for years and all....I'm still not a "team player" and apparently cannot be one. I don't know *how*. I have never known how. Being incapable of fitting in on a MUSH, while not RL, is an echo, and it hurts. But that's my problem, not theirs. Where it becomes their problem is any assumption that I'm deliberately being an ass. I'm not. I was trying to have fun, same as them.
But...this is not going to get fixed. They're certainly not going to change. All I can do is try to move on and not dwell on it, and second-guess myself, and berate myself. Because that won't fix anything either. But it's hard. Because since I can never quite grasp what I did wrong, or else, why what I did was wrong, and how I was supposed to have prevented it given the circumstances and what I saw *others* doing without getting in trouble.....I cannot know how to prevent similar problems in the future. My interactions are always going to be hesitant, never quite sure when I'm going to piss somebody off and get in trouble....again.
Letting go of the things you can't accomplish is a good choice. It doesn't do you any good to brood over things outside your reach.
There are a couple things I'll toss out for the sake of devil's advocacy.
The first is: If you don't practice, you'll never get better. You might even get worse. (I found working by myself in a locked room for a few years really stunted my social skills.) Now, that may not apply to you. I have a friend with fibromyalgia who would deck me if I suggested that she'd be better if she just exercised more. She has a condition that conventional wisdom won't fix. That could be your situation. I don't know. But it's something you can mull over.
The other is that you may consider what it is that limits you and see if there's a way to remove that. I do have friends that are socially awkward because of childhood trauma. I don't know if that is your case at all, but it's something you might consider. If it is the case, it may be something you can work through.
So, I guess my addendum to "don't kick yourself for not being able to do some things" is, "don't let yourself be limited by walls you create."
I should probably also add that text is not a great format for communication. So much is lost. For a while I refused to believe it, thinking I had good enough communication skills to get past the limitations of prose. But I've gotten burned by that impression enough to realize my mistake. It may not be that you are the problem so much as the format.
There are other open venue collaborative online roleplay venues, lots of play-by-post games with the occasional play-by-chat on the side. But it is not *as* immediate as a MUSH is all the time. Since they have a lower threshhold of involvement (i.e., you don't need to know anything about MUSH codes or objects to post on a forum), they tend to have a younger age group. And, with it, probably less quality roleplay and more silly.
There are probably open roleplay chat rooms out there. There were fifteen years ago, so I'm sure they haven't disappeared. But that loses all the structure of MUSHes. It's just people showing up, playing pretend for a bit, and then going away. The best compromise might be just a small play-by-chat game, with some PbP or PBEM aspects mixed in. This would be smaller, and the chat roleplay would be less frequent, but would remove the need to have some over-arcing admin staff to administer it or a special server. Smaller games do make for more closely crafted stories, though. I don't have the patience (or time) for online play anymore, but I don't think i could ever go back to that vast anonymity you get with a MUSH. Especially a well established one.
There are forums out there where people advertise games that they are organizing. If you are interested, I can try and find some.
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My only regret is that I did not leave earlier. Much earlier. When I realised I did not fit in, there. Or when I realised that nothing I said was ever going to be permitted to be true, even if I had logs. I was always going to be wrong. That's the way it goes. Tribes *act* like that. Once I was on the outside, I was always going to be on the outside.
It seems I was "unwilling to change". Actually, it's more likely I'm "unable to change". I'm a little more inflexible every year. It comes with age, unfortunately. I can only enjoy playing what I enjoy playing, and apparently that just doesn't mesh.
If you think about it, a MUSH is a microcosm of society. Sort of. Minus things like the ability to see that it's a real person you're cutting to ribbons. It's amazing, considering people can't even be nice in the name of fun, that nations and governments manage to survive for a few years, let alone a couple hundred years.
It was a bad fit. Unfortunately.
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I know what you mean about growing inflexibility, somewhat. As I've gotten older, I've gotten a better sense of what I like and don't like and it's harder for me to try things that look a little iffy. It burns me pretty regularly. I've missed out on some stuff that I ended up really liking when I finally gave it a shot. (I've also been proven right in my assumptions.)
More and more I try to recognize my resistance to change and try doing things that I'm resistant to. I find when I don't do that I start building walls against trying things new and start painting myself into a corner until nothing looks good anymore. =(
I could see MUSHes (and many other communities) being a microcosm of society. I think where it differs from larger institutions (like governments) is that there's usually more self-interest in maintaining something that provides you with security and money. A game that requires people to volunteer time is harder to maintain.
Reply
I've had that conversation exactly. I was not any wiser about the math in question at the end of the discussion.
After all the yellings-at I got, I still don't know what the other people wanted. I got the point I wanted to say, "Why don't you just tell me what you want me to pose, so you will be happy? Because you're clearly not happy with what I can offer." I never, ever understood what was wanted. All I ever understood was that I was not capable of offering what was wanted.
Sadly, this echoes my experience with dealing with groups of people in RL, which was why I pretty much never had more than one friend at a time all through school. It hurts my...ego, sense of self, sense of individual worth, something....to know that after all these years, and 12 years of "socialization" in school, and being in the workplace for years and all....I'm still not a "team player" and apparently cannot be one. I don't know *how*. I have never known how. Being incapable of fitting in on a MUSH, while not RL, is an echo, and it hurts. But that's my problem, not theirs. Where it becomes their problem is any assumption that I'm deliberately being an ass. I'm not. I was trying to have fun, same as them.
But...this is not going to get fixed. They're certainly not going to change. All I can do is try to move on and not dwell on it, and second-guess myself, and berate myself. Because that won't fix anything either. But it's hard. Because since I can never quite grasp what I did wrong, or else, why what I did was wrong, and how I was supposed to have prevented it given the circumstances and what I saw *others* doing without getting in trouble.....I cannot know how to prevent similar problems in the future. My interactions are always going to be hesitant, never quite sure when I'm going to piss somebody off and get in trouble....again.
Reply
There are a couple things I'll toss out for the sake of devil's advocacy.
The first is: If you don't practice, you'll never get better. You might even get worse. (I found working by myself in a locked room for a few years really stunted my social skills.) Now, that may not apply to you. I have a friend with fibromyalgia who would deck me if I suggested that she'd be better if she just exercised more. She has a condition that conventional wisdom won't fix. That could be your situation. I don't know. But it's something you can mull over.
The other is that you may consider what it is that limits you and see if there's a way to remove that. I do have friends that are socially awkward because of childhood trauma. I don't know if that is your case at all, but it's something you might consider. If it is the case, it may be something you can work through.
So, I guess my addendum to "don't kick yourself for not being able to do some things" is, "don't let yourself be limited by walls you create."
I should probably also add that text is not a great format for communication. So much is lost. For a while I refused to believe it, thinking I had good enough communication skills to get past the limitations of prose. But I've gotten burned by that impression enough to realize my mistake. It may not be that you are the problem so much as the format.
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