4. Which is just as well, as I've had some slightly surreal jobs, all in all! The summer I graduated I got a job temping as a tea lady in the Patent Office (hey, don't knock it, Einstein worked as a clerk in the Patent Office in Berlin, I seem to recall). It was like going back in time, working there. I'd wheel my trolley of tea and biscuits round at the allotted times, and the Head of Department would smile diffidently and say, "Thank you so much, Miss O'Neill. Now, I wonder if you'd mind awfully translating this patent application for us? Quite a lot of it appears to be in French."
11. My son is 17 - and you do know what A levels are, if you've read Harry Potter. In JK Rowling's day (which is the same as my day, as we're much of an age) you took General Certificate of Education (GCE) Ordinary Level Examinations (O Levels) at 16 (end of the fifth year of secondary school). JKR called these OWLs (Ordinary Wizarding Levels). You'd take, say, 10 subjects. I took Maths, Arithmetic, English Language, English Literature, Religious Education, French (these were all compulsory at my school), Biology, Latin, German, Spanish and Art. So you had to take some and could choose others. Mine was a very language-orientated choice!
After your O levels, you'd decide what you wanted to concentrate on and take 3 or possibly 4 subjects on to A or Advanced Level. You take the exams at 18, at the end of the Upper Sixth - in other words 7th year of secondary school (JK calls these NEWTS - Nastily Exhausting Wizarding Tests). They are MUCH harder than O levels - far more specialised. You choose the subjects that interest you - I took English, French and German.
These days, O levels are called GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education examinations) but A levels are still A levels. To get a place at university, you generally need at least 5 GSCEs, including English and Maths, plus specific grades at A level. And the better the university, the more demanding the grades they ask, obviously. My college asked me for a B and two Cs, whereas others on my shortlist would have taken me as long as I had two Cs at A level. Oxford and Cambridge these days usually ask for 3 or 4 As at A level!
From what I've read, the difference between English exams and American ones is that you don't need to pass every subject - is that right? If you're taking O levels, in other words, failing one won't mean you don't pass all the others, whereas I get the impression that in the States you can't "graduate from High School" if you're failing in one subject? I remember being very surprised when I read earlgreytea's account of Brem's going to Harvard - he appeared to choose what he was going to do when he got there and it seemed very generalised to me. I didn't understand why his girlfriend, who was taking an English degree, would need to be studying physics - in the UK, you'd have ditched that at O level. I did French and Italian, and you studied French language and literature plus things like civilisation and cinema and Italian language and literature. And that was it! And you chose that before you arrived at university!
17. Brummy accent = from Birmingham. Although you do get plenty of regional accents on the BBC now, they did a poll and found that the Birmingham accent was the most disliked in Britain. Shakespeare was from Stratford, in Warwickshire, which is Not Far... Mr Weasley in the Harry Potter films (Mark Williams) has a gentle version of this accent. Listen for the full horror! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzb7BanTuXw&feature=related
4.Tea Lady!?!?!?! I don't think there is a comparable job description for that over here.
11.Okay, my mind is spinning from that one. IF I understand it, it sounds much more sensible than the system we've got over here. As to colleges being more generalized, I certainly agree with that. That is why I encouraged my daughter to go to an art college, rather than a college or university that just had an art program. She has absolutely no need for or interest in Calculus or Physics and, while she has to take math and science classes even at her school (Memphis College of Art) they are directed towards art. Her math class will focus on running an art business and this year she will take Anatomy for a science class but it will be focused on how the human body works and how to apply it to art.
11. Yes, that's what I inferred from earlgreytea's story. How bizarre! So, do you have to take a mixture of subjects for any degree? If you're taking Physics, for example, do you have to do English or Spanish or Art? I don't see why you should have to take sciences or maths if you're taking an arts-based degree!
What standard are the additional courses? I had always understood that Americans went to college at 17, and had therefore assumed that your high school diploma was probably far easier than A levels (probably more like GCSEs if you took a broad range of subjects) and that therefore your bachelor's degree would probably be nearer A levels than our bachelor's degree. In England, we have "ordinary" degrees and honours degrees - ordinary is between A level and honours degree - and I suppose I had assumed your first degree was more like that.
These are all just assumptions - I have no idea really, and I suppose it would be very difficult for you to gauge standards without knowing what our standards are like. The only thing I have to compare it with is the baccalaureat in France, which is taken at 18 - the standard of the English exam my students took is NOTHING LIKE SO DIFFICULT as the A level in French that I took, but then I was specialising in three subjects whereas they were still all studying about ten - like our O levels.
Do you take any other exams apart from high school diploma and degree? What age can you leave school at (in England you can leave at 16 after you've taken your GCSEs or at 18 after your A levels)?
Yeah, pretty much for any 4 year degree you have to take a certain amount of other subjects that are considered to be core but outside of your major. I guess the theory is to make you a well-rounded person? I don't know how they would compare to the A-levels or to your college courses. A lot of them are "survey" classes....for example, for my Political Science degree, I had to take Art Appreciation, Music Appreciation and Theater Appreciation to fulfill my Fine Arts requirements. They were pretty easy and didn't go into much depth. As to school before the college level, most kids start at Kindergarten(age5) but it is not required in most states. Most states require kids to start attending school at age 6 which would be First Grade. Elementary/Grade School generally runs from 1st - 5th Grade, but some include 6th Grade. A very few(my school back in the 70's for example) include up to 8th grade. That is extremely rare now. Once you are done with Elementary/Grade school, you go on to either a Middle School(6-8th) or Junior High School(7th and 8th) and then on to High School. (9th - 12th). How it works depends a lot on where you live. THEN.....once you are in HS, you have a choice of course you can take. Generally, they are broken down into Vocational/Business track, Academic track and College Prep. Most places offer a Vocational High School either for all four years of high school or for 10th-12th. Kids who go there usually go study things like food service, cosmetology, auto repair, secretarial, etc. but a few are now offering classes in computer technology and more high tech stuff. Regardless of whatever track you take or if you go to a regular HS or a Voc. HS you still have to take however many mandatory credits in subjects that your state requires. If I remember correctly from my daughter, you had to take 3 years of Math, 3 years of English, 3 years of History/Social Studies, 3 years of science, a half year of Health, 2 years worth of Fine Arts classes like Art or Music(think it included Foreign Languages, too) Oh, and 4 years of Gym! As long as you pass the required classes with a C, you graduate. There is always talk that some states are going to start requiring an exam at the end of the 4 years to actually graduate but it'll never happen! Some schools offer higher level classes, called Advanced Placement classes that are supposedly college level classes and will get you out of taking some classes in college if you pass the final exam with a high enough grade. Many colleges are now allowing kids who are still in HS, usually in 11th and 12th grade to actually take some classes on their campus and/or online for both HS and college credit. That is what my daughter did for several of her classes in 12th grade. (We live 2 blocks from a branch campus of Penn State and they offered half-price classes to HS students so we jumped at it.) And, just to muddy the waters further, we home-schooled our daughter for HS! But it was through a state-run cyber charter school so she took most of her classes online or as an independent study, except for her Penn State classes. Supposedly, the main things that gets you accepted into a college or university over here are your HS grades and your SAT(Scholastic Aptitude Test) score. Also, your AP scores if you took any of those.
Yeah, in the UK you can leave school at 16, but you've usually taken a few GCSEs these days when you do. You don't have to stay on till 18. In my day, you left at 16 or 18 or you went on to further education - the difference is, that when I went to college, only 6% of people did so - these days, I think it's about 45%. It's great in theory that more people are going on to higher education, but of course the standards have dropped, you don't get it for free like you did in my day and - most importantly of all - you aren't more-or-less guaranteed a job at the end of it! Also, what I think is quite sad, is that you used to be able to study whatever you liked, that interested you - study for study's sake, rather than with an end in view. My brother did a Classics degree - Latin, Ancient Greek and Ancient History. What job was he planning to get? - didn't have a clue, but he knew he'd get one, as the fact that you had a degree in those days meant that you just did. In the end, he decided to be a doctor, then decided he couldn't bear the thought of another seven years' study, so became a nurse instead. And now he is Director of Care of Diabetes UK. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to use any of the skills he learnt at university for his job (though I suppose Latin is useful for the names of diseases, LOL), but it showed that he was educated to a certain level and could therefore be expected to turn his hand to most things... My son is thinking about going to university, and he already has to be thinking about something vocational, because there are a lot more people going to university, so he needs something he can use at the end of it. And of course, at 17, he has NO IDEA what he wants to do. I know I didn't.
I can't believe you don't have to take any exams. You're so jammy!
I can only thank the good Lord that England Specialises. The happiest day of my life was when I got my O level results, realised I had passed Maths and therefore Never Had To Study It Again!!!!!
The other thing I always forget is that America isn't one country. When you said "depends on the state" I suddenly realised it again. How strange. I think the UK would fit into... can't remember, somewhere beginning with I, I think - Indiana possibly? (How big is Idaho, LOL!) We have some 60 million people balancing on this island but they all more-or-less come under the same rules (apart from the Scots, who have different rules regarding education and university and are generally More Jammy Than The English In This Regard) so it's always strange to me to think that you are effectively a collection of separate countries who happen to speak the same language ... well, to a certain extent, anyway!
Thanks for your long reply. I feel suitably educated at the end of it (and my daughter was very unimpressed that you don't have to take any exams at school).
11. My son is 17 - and you do know what A levels are, if you've read Harry Potter. In JK Rowling's day (which is the same as my day, as we're much of an age) you took General Certificate of Education (GCE) Ordinary Level Examinations (O Levels) at 16 (end of the fifth year of secondary school). JKR called these OWLs (Ordinary Wizarding Levels). You'd take, say, 10 subjects. I took Maths, Arithmetic, English Language, English Literature, Religious Education, French (these were all compulsory at my school), Biology, Latin, German, Spanish and Art. So you had to take some and could choose others. Mine was a very language-orientated choice!
After your O levels, you'd decide what you wanted to concentrate on and take 3 or possibly 4 subjects on to A or Advanced Level. You take the exams at 18, at the end of the Upper Sixth - in other words 7th year of secondary school (JK calls these NEWTS - Nastily Exhausting Wizarding Tests). They are MUCH harder than O levels - far more specialised. You choose the subjects that interest you - I took English, French and German.
These days, O levels are called GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education examinations) but A levels are still A levels. To get a place at university, you generally need at least 5 GSCEs, including English and Maths, plus specific grades at A level. And the better the university, the more demanding the grades they ask, obviously. My college asked me for a B and two Cs, whereas others on my shortlist would have taken me as long as I had two Cs at A level. Oxford and Cambridge these days usually ask for 3 or 4 As at A level!
From what I've read, the difference between English exams and American ones is that you don't need to pass every subject - is that right? If you're taking O levels, in other words, failing one won't mean you don't pass all the others, whereas I get the impression that in the States you can't "graduate from High School" if you're failing in one subject? I remember being very surprised when I read earlgreytea's account of Brem's going to Harvard - he appeared to choose what he was going to do when he got there and it seemed very generalised to me. I didn't understand why his girlfriend, who was taking an English degree, would need to be studying physics - in the UK, you'd have ditched that at O level. I did French and Italian, and you studied French language and literature plus things like civilisation and cinema and Italian language and literature. And that was it! And you chose that before you arrived at university!
17. Brummy accent = from Birmingham. Although you do get plenty of regional accents on the BBC now, they did a poll and found that the Birmingham accent was the most disliked in Britain. Shakespeare was from Stratford, in Warwickshire, which is Not Far... Mr Weasley in the Harry Potter films (Mark Williams) has a gentle version of this accent. Listen for the full horror! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzb7BanTuXw&feature=related
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11.Okay, my mind is spinning from that one. IF I understand it, it sounds much more sensible than the system we've got over here. As to colleges being more generalized, I certainly agree with that. That is why I encouraged my daughter to go to an art college, rather than a college or university that just had an art program. She has absolutely no need for or interest in Calculus or Physics and, while she has to take math and science classes even at her school (Memphis College of Art) they are directed towards art. Her math class will focus on running an art business and this year she will take Anatomy for a science class but it will be focused on how the human body works and how to apply it to art.
17. Was that guy actually speaking ENGLISH?
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What standard are the additional courses? I had always understood that Americans went to college at 17, and had therefore assumed that your high school diploma was probably far easier than A levels (probably more like GCSEs if you took a broad range of subjects) and that therefore your bachelor's degree would probably be nearer A levels than our bachelor's degree. In England, we have "ordinary" degrees and honours degrees - ordinary is between A level and honours degree - and I suppose I had assumed your first degree was more like that.
These are all just assumptions - I have no idea really, and I suppose it would be very difficult for you to gauge standards without knowing what our standards are like. The only thing I have to compare it with is the baccalaureat in France, which is taken at 18 - the standard of the English exam my students took is NOTHING LIKE SO DIFFICULT as the A level in French that I took, but then I was specialising in three subjects whereas they were still all studying about ten - like our O levels.
Do you take any other exams apart from high school diploma and degree? What age can you leave school at (in England you can leave at 16 after you've taken your GCSEs or at 18 after your A levels)?
Reply
Some schools offer higher level classes, called Advanced Placement classes that are supposedly college level classes and will get you out of taking some classes in college if you pass the final exam with a high enough grade. Many colleges are now allowing kids who are still in HS, usually in 11th and 12th grade to actually take some classes on their campus and/or online for both HS and college credit. That is what my daughter did for several of her classes in 12th grade. (We live 2 blocks from a branch campus of Penn State and they offered half-price classes to HS students so we jumped at it.) And, just to muddy the waters further, we home-schooled our daughter for HS! But it was through a state-run cyber charter school so she took most of her classes online or as an independent study, except for her Penn State classes.
Supposedly, the main things that gets you accepted into a college or university over here are your HS grades and your SAT(Scholastic Aptitude Test) score. Also, your AP scores if you took any of those.
Confused? So am I! It's a mess!
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I can't believe you don't have to take any exams. You're so jammy!
I can only thank the good Lord that England Specialises. The happiest day of my life was when I got my O level results, realised I had passed Maths and therefore Never Had To Study It Again!!!!!
Reply
Thanks for your long reply. I feel suitably educated at the end of it (and my daughter was very unimpressed that you don't have to take any exams at school).
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