Friendly Word of Advice
Before gearing yourself up to pull a its either me or its them sort of move, either very directly or in a more passive aggressive way by always pushing their buttons and acting so hostile toward them, tattling on them every time they do something you don't like while reminding everyone of all the wonderful things you have done for them, until it becomes painfully clear to everyone that co-existing will be impossible, you better make damn sure you really are as well liked and as valuable a member to said group as you think you are. And you know, if you also happen to be rampaging ego maniac with very deep seated insecurities (and really, what other sort of person would even attempt a move like that, just because you alienated former friends now no one else can like them either, they must be driven forth from the face of the earth!), you might not be seeing the picture quite as clearly as you think you are.
But hey, go right ahead and keep digging your own grave. I knew that alliance was on its way out the second I saw you about to turn on those two, now that I know your relationship has entirely fractured and you're acting like a spiteful brat about it as usual (I guess you just can't help yourself, huh?), I don't give it until the end of the year. Maybe, when you have inevitably driven off what remains of your allies, that will finally be the much deserved and long awaited end of you.
I have to say, as a lesbian, a child free woman, a person who is not particularly family or community oriented by design, I have never once felt that I was not valued by my gods, that I was marginalized by the community (not for that anyway), that I was considered second rate at best. As someone with a few chronic problems that make me far less than perfect I never felt unloved by the gods, considered defective, that I was unfit to represent them when they wanted me to, or even that I was unfit to worship them at all at certain times. I get the whole Hellenismos is family oriented and blah blah blah, but still not everyone is meant to have a family (for some of us, that would be quite disastrous indeed), and since the need for people to breed is not what it once was (in fact, we could probably stand a lot less breeding than there currently is), I don't see how not having a family is a problem or why it automatically relegates you to the lower tier. I have never once, as long as I've been around the community, felt rejection from anybody based on that (and I have felt it before, the Asatru communities I looked into prior to becoming Hellenic all had that tone of if you don't plan on having about seventeen viking babies you might as well not exist as far as we're concerned, and I'm not there now am I? and of course not all Heathens agree with that sentiment, just took me a long time to find some :-)). It never even occurred to me to think I might not be considered as good as a Hellenic breeder, until all this shit anyway.
And you know what, I remain unconvinced that's the case at all, that this represents anything other than the opinions of some groups and individuals. I support a group's right to not have me as a member and I support people's rights to believe what they will however fucking stupid or assholish those opinions may be. But nobody owns the gods however much they may think that they do; religion and culture was not a uniform as some clearly wish that it was (and anybody who reads a couple history books, or has any actual knowledge of the way the world really works, would know that), and either way that was then and this is now, and holding on to tradition that no longer makes any sense (not in the way the world is now, not based on our current understanding of medical science, not based on a different sense of right and wrong, etc.), holding on to it merely for the sake of tradition, is pointless and dangerous (where does it end? do we as a society ever get to move passed old, out worn ideas, or are we stuck in one position, in one frame of mind until everything crumbles down around our ears?). And if you are the sort of person advocating going against your own ethics for the sake of tradition ... you have absolutely no worth as a human being. None at all. There is really nothing more pathetic than that. But sannion has already done a very good job covering this whole drama and illustrating why that might just be the single stupidest thing anybody has said in a very long time, so I'll just direct your attention his way.
So if you're new to this whole thing and come upon this hateful crap, I do hope you don't let it turn you off. These people don't speak for Hellenismos, they speak only for themselves and their organizations. They certainly don't speak for the American community (which they largely decry anyway) where I've found for the most part the opinions are extremely different. And they don't speak for the gods, the gods can call who they see fit and bless any union they want to and they don't need to justify themselves to any mortal.
So I'm just going to go on doing what I'm doing, feeling at home and comfortable here among my gods and those people who accept and support me, and to hell with those who don't. My gods (who are not known to be either particularly traditionally minded, or buckled down family men, thank you very much) love me and value me just fine, have accepted me as a representative when the need arose (one grove ritual Hermes all but demanded it, and that didn't just come from me), and have not only blessed but arranged my homosexual, non child bearing relationship with my girlfriend. That is the only thing that matters to me, not what some organization I'm not a member of, or a loud mouth I couldn't possibly think less of, believe.
I do hope other people out there keep that in mind as well. If you choose to step in line with them that's one thing, but don't let anyone convince you that they're objectively right and you have no choice.
But hey, go right ahead and keep digging your own grave. I knew that alliance was on its way out the second I saw you about to turn on those two, now that I know your relationship has entirely fractured and you're acting like a spiteful brat about it as usual (I guess you just can't help yourself, huh?), I don't give it until the end of the year. Maybe, when you have inevitably driven off what remains of your allies, that will finally be the much deserved and long awaited end of you.
I have to say, as a lesbian, a child free woman, a person who is not particularly family or community oriented by design, I have never once felt that I was not valued by my gods, that I was marginalized by the community (not for that anyway), that I was considered second rate at best. As someone with a few chronic problems that make me far less than perfect I never felt unloved by the gods, considered defective, that I was unfit to represent them when they wanted me to, or even that I was unfit to worship them at all at certain times. I get the whole Hellenismos is family oriented and blah blah blah, but still not everyone is meant to have a family (for some of us, that would be quite disastrous indeed), and since the need for people to breed is not what it once was (in fact, we could probably stand a lot less breeding than there currently is), I don't see how not having a family is a problem or why it automatically relegates you to the lower tier. I have never once, as long as I've been around the community, felt rejection from anybody based on that (and I have felt it before, the Asatru communities I looked into prior to becoming Hellenic all had that tone of if you don't plan on having about seventeen viking babies you might as well not exist as far as we're concerned, and I'm not there now am I? and of course not all Heathens agree with that sentiment, just took me a long time to find some :-)). It never even occurred to me to think I might not be considered as good as a Hellenic breeder, until all this shit anyway.
And you know what, I remain unconvinced that's the case at all, that this represents anything other than the opinions of some groups and individuals. I support a group's right to not have me as a member and I support people's rights to believe what they will however fucking stupid or assholish those opinions may be. But nobody owns the gods however much they may think that they do; religion and culture was not a uniform as some clearly wish that it was (and anybody who reads a couple history books, or has any actual knowledge of the way the world really works, would know that), and either way that was then and this is now, and holding on to tradition that no longer makes any sense (not in the way the world is now, not based on our current understanding of medical science, not based on a different sense of right and wrong, etc.), holding on to it merely for the sake of tradition, is pointless and dangerous (where does it end? do we as a society ever get to move passed old, out worn ideas, or are we stuck in one position, in one frame of mind until everything crumbles down around our ears?). And if you are the sort of person advocating going against your own ethics for the sake of tradition ... you have absolutely no worth as a human being. None at all. There is really nothing more pathetic than that. But sannion has already done a very good job covering this whole drama and illustrating why that might just be the single stupidest thing anybody has said in a very long time, so I'll just direct your attention his way.
So if you're new to this whole thing and come upon this hateful crap, I do hope you don't let it turn you off. These people don't speak for Hellenismos, they speak only for themselves and their organizations. They certainly don't speak for the American community (which they largely decry anyway) where I've found for the most part the opinions are extremely different. And they don't speak for the gods, the gods can call who they see fit and bless any union they want to and they don't need to justify themselves to any mortal.
So I'm just going to go on doing what I'm doing, feeling at home and comfortable here among my gods and those people who accept and support me, and to hell with those who don't. My gods (who are not known to be either particularly traditionally minded, or buckled down family men, thank you very much) love me and value me just fine, have accepted me as a representative when the need arose (one grove ritual Hermes all but demanded it, and that didn't just come from me), and have not only blessed but arranged my homosexual, non child bearing relationship with my girlfriend. That is the only thing that matters to me, not what some organization I'm not a member of, or a loud mouth I couldn't possibly think less of, believe.
I do hope other people out there keep that in mind as well. If you choose to step in line with them that's one thing, but don't let anyone convince you that they're objectively right and you have no choice.