I mean that the interaction between Zachariah and Dean was highly sexualised and brutalised Dean (it did give him stage IV gastric cancer and removed his brother's lungs, after all).
Whether or not we see the angels as dicks - and I have been saying that the angels aren't trustworthy since Castiel showed up - there's a huge difference between being dicks and forcing someone to beg for his life, to force him to say yes. There's a massive difference between being an ass and raping someone (or being happy and willing to rape someone). There's a difference between being untrustworthy and taking pleasure in others' pain, taking pleasure in torturing people.
Additionally, there is the culture we exist in. No matter Kripke's decrees from on high, Supernatural doesn't exist in a cultural vacuum, anymore than fandom does. While we can know logically that the angels aren't trustworthy, there is the idea that angels and demons are different. If they aren't - why would Lucifer fall? What difference is there between Heaven and Hell? When John escaped the torture of Hell did he, then escape to the torturous fires of Heaven? Even if angels are asshole bastards, I think before this, I held them to, at least, a slightly higher standard than, say, Lilith, even if I thought they were scum.
I'm not sure I saw the interaction between Dean and Zachariah 'highly sexualized.' I think Dean was brutalized and victimized, but I do not think that it was sexual. So I was wondering, what gave you that impression?
I agree, there is a huge difference to those things. I'm just saying I don't see the difference between whether an angel who forcefully asks for consent is all that different from a demon who takes without permission (aside from the consent issue). At the end of the day, it's still possession, and it is still wrong.
If someone says, "So-and-so wants to be inside you?" And the other person says, "No, you need my consent to do that and I don't," and the first person says, "He is going to take you, his [object]," in my book, it's sexual. Dean is protesting that he doesn't consent to having Michael inside of him, riding him, taking him, and using him. Additionally, Dean is forced to his knees while Zachariah holds his head up.
Ah, I just read your other meta regarding the sexualization of possession. I see what your saying now about Dean and Zachariah's situation being sexual (although I think I'm going to have to watch it over again and pay close attention to Zachariah's nuances and word choices. Because, while I do agree that possession in the show is pretty sexual, I'm not sure if Dean and Zachariah's were to a much higher extent).
Whether or not we see the angels as dicks - and I have been saying that the angels aren't trustworthy since Castiel showed up - there's a huge difference between being dicks and forcing someone to beg for his life, to force him to say yes. There's a massive difference between being an ass and raping someone (or being happy and willing to rape someone). There's a difference between being untrustworthy and taking pleasure in others' pain, taking pleasure in torturing people.
Additionally, there is the culture we exist in. No matter Kripke's decrees from on high, Supernatural doesn't exist in a cultural vacuum, anymore than fandom does. While we can know logically that the angels aren't trustworthy, there is the idea that angels and demons are different. If they aren't - why would Lucifer fall? What difference is there between Heaven and Hell? When John escaped the torture of Hell did he, then escape to the torturous fires of Heaven? Even if angels are asshole bastards, I think before this, I held them to, at least, a slightly higher standard than, say, Lilith, even if I thought they were scum.
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I agree, there is a huge difference to those things. I'm just saying I don't see the difference between whether an angel who forcefully asks for consent is all that different from a demon who takes without permission (aside from the consent issue). At the end of the day, it's still possession, and it is still wrong.
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If you aren't familiar with the idea, I suggest you check out Does This Remind You of Anything?.
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