Ron Weasley, Prefects and other stuffs

[changclaire5]

I am suddenly struck by a question out of nowhere:  Why was Ron Weasley picked as a Prefect?  As far as I am concerned, even Neville has a better sense of right and wrong than Ron. So why Ron?

Based on my impression of how Albus Dumbledore worked, I am tempted to say this is another case of plain Dumbledore Favoritism. But then, I could be wrong

Comments

[emsoucy]

There are a few reasons why I think Ron was chosen as a prefect.

First, a recurring theme throughout OotP is Harry's feeling of alienation. He just witnessed one of his schoolmates being needlessly killed, which is something most 14 year olds don't go through, the Ministry doesn't believe Voldemort's back, and Harry feels as though Dumbledore has forgotten all about him. Basically the only the people who are behind Harry 100% are Hermione and Ron. Having them off doing something that Harry cannot partake in is the only way of alienating him from them.

Also, from a plot device point of view, if Ron and Hermione weren't off doing their prefect thing on the train, we wouldn't have been introduced to Luna, which would've complicated the whole thestral scene. Keeping the three of them together all the time really limits the number of outsiders they let into their group. Because, really, when you're hanging out with your two best friends, why do you need to bother being friendly with anyone else? If not for the prefect thing, we know the trio (or even just Harry and Ron, because it's obvious that Hermione would've been chosen as prefect anyway), wouldn't hang out with Luna. They probably wouldn't even be thrilled at the prospect of sitting with Neville.

Of course, this does bring up the issue of why Ron was chosen over Neville as prefect. I don't think JKR even entertained the idea of making Dean or Seamus being prefects simply because we don't know enough about them. Neville would be a good choice, IMO. However, I don't think Neville himself would be very happy at being prefect. Sure, it's something he could be proud of, but I don't think he'd want to have to be an authority figure to the other kids; it didn't make Percy any more popular with the twins or Ron, and I doubt being in charge would make Neville any more popular or confident socially. Why do I think Ron was chosen, though? Remember in PS/SS when the boys looked into the Mirror of Erised and Ron saw himself as Head Boy and Quidditch captain? Dumbledore was there. He saw that it was Ron's deepest desire to be "above the rest," so to speak. I think if Dumbledore knew it would build Ron's confidence and self-esteem, and as mentioned above, Dumbledore does try to help out his students, especially his favorites. And how could he look down on Ron's bravery, courage, and nerve when choosing what's right over what's easy?

[mad_maudlin]

I think there may have been other additional reasons for not choosing Neville. One, I think, is the possibility that when faced with a situation where he had to exercise his authority, he might just clam up and hide; Ron does this around the twins, but until about the mid-point of OotP I'd say Neville would've done it with everybody. That's the book where Neville starts to gain confidence in himself, and by then the choice is already made. At the beginning of the year, Neville is "nobody special" by his own admission, and it's only about halfway through where I think he started exhibiting signs of the same inner strength that he showed in PS.

Also--and this is more speculation--what if Frank Longbottom was a prefect? Neville's had to live with a lifetime of unflattering comparisons to his parents, particularly his father, and he needs to learn to be happy and content within himself. And Augusta needs to learn to love him has himself and not mini!Frank; she would go nuts if Neville was a prefect just like his daddy, but not in a good way. Ron's situation is parallel (and Molly's reaction is much like Augusta's would be) but it's less intense. He doesn't have nearly as much trouble detaching his own identity from the artificial ideal as Neville does.

[nemesister]

He attacts Draco (and Crabbe and Goyle) one against three again, because he will not stand any slights agains his parents.
Compare this to Ron.

Ahem, Ron is the one who attacks Draco (and Crabbe and Goyle) one against three, because he will not stand any slights against his parents. Then Neville helps him.
Neville tries to do the same thing in GoF, if you're talking about this incident, but Ron already did in in PS, so this comparison doesn't really show a big difference, with the exception that we saw that Ron can prove himself in a fistfight, (Draco didn't win.) while we don't have an example for Neville being able to do the same. (In this instance he had no chance of course, because he was faced with Crabbe and Goyle. So this very much proves his bravery but not his ability to deal with the situation.)

[changclaire5]

Yes, Ron was brave to fight the Malfoy three. But for Neville to do it shows more bravery than Ron, simply because Neville had always been ridiculed and looked down upon (even sometimes by his insensitive housemates). But in any case, both boys are brave, and to discuss who is braver is of no consequence, and not the main point.

The point is that Neville can and did stand up against friends when he thought them wrong. Ron has never thown such ability.

[nemesister]

I also agree that Neville had to show more bravery there, but, as you say, "who is braver" is not the most interesting question. Very brave should be enough.

The point is that Neville can and did stand up against friends when he thought them wrong. Ron has never thown such ability.

Ron did show this ability when he told Hermione that tricking the house elves is not okay, and corrected the situation himself when she wouldn't listen to him. His sense of decency is without a doubt stronger than his wish for social harmony.
He is willing and able to stand up for himself against his friends quite extremely, as we see when he thinks they betrayed him or wronged him (Harry in GoF, Hermione in PoA). He just happened to agree with Harry at the end of OotP.
He also confronted the twins about the blackmailing. They still have far too much power over him, that's true. He saw how much Percy suffered from standing up to them and is mortally afraid to experience the same. This is a huge handicap that has to be resolved in the last book. I pray, at least, that JKR will address it.
But - with the exception of the twins, Ron doesn't accept anything he doesn't agree with from anyone, while Neville has to try very hard to be able to do the same.

[changclaire5]

Yes, all those examples you pointed out are true, but somehow they don't seem the same as Neville's trying to stop the trio in book one. Let me try to explain.

when he thinks they betrayed him or wronged him (Harry in GoF, Hermione in PoA).

In GoF, he's simply being jealous beyond common sense. And in PoA, he thought Crookshanks ate his pet. So of course in both cases he's upset. That doesn't even take courage, all it takes is a normal teenage boy with a hot temper.

he told Hermione that tricking the house elves is not okay, and corrected the situation himself when she wouldn't listen to him

I actually don't remember what he did to correct this. But in any case, I think it was just friends having different opinions here. Ron didn't think Hermione was breaking any rules, nor was her behavior going to lose house point for them. He just thought the house elves should be left alone.

A major difference is that in all those examples, Ron was not acting to enforce the rules. And if I remember my younger days clearly, opposing a friend to enforce the rules takes much more courage than simply expressing different opinions to friends. I'd say they are two entirely different things. The former might be viewed as a betrayal of friendship, while the latter is simply daily affair among friends.

[nemesister]

Ron removed the waste Hermione used to hide the clothes.

Ron didn't think Hermione was breaking any rules, nor was her behavior going to lose house point for them. He just thought the house elves should be left alone.

Yeah, he thought what Hermione did was morally wrong. That's what I was arguing about the whole time.

I don't agree that Neville cares much about rules, either. He wanted to stop the trio because of the house points! Because he wanted Gryffindor to win the competition. It was just colliding interests and a disagreement among peers.
He joined the forbidden DA and started/tried to start fights as much as anyone else, as we discussed in this post. Where is his love for rules at any point of the series other than the PS incident?
No, I think he wanted to prove himself as a worthy Gryffindor not as a teacher's pet.

Don't you agree that standing up for what you think is morally right is vastly more important than standing up for the rules, as much for prefects as for any other human beings?

[changclaire5]

I just re-read that chapter. Ron was entirely unsupportive of Hermione when she told off the twins for testing on first years (which is morally wrong, as the first years didn't seem to be told what they were getting into, similar to the situation with disguised hats for elves). Ron behaved as if he feared the twins, so he didn't stand up to face them. He mumbled to Hermione "You handled it fine by yourself", meaning he acknowledged that the event should be dealt with, he was just afraid to do so himself.

After losing face to Hermione just a minute ago, Ron now of course needed to find it back again. So he reacted more strongly than he would've to Hermione's leaving the hats disguised. And even so, he waited until she had been gone before taking off the disguise.

So did Ron really stand up for what he thought was morally wrong? To me, he simply expressed his different opinion (rightfully, I have to say). Unlike Neville, he didn't act on it until Hermione was gone.

A comparable action on Neville's part would be to sit in the commone room couch, say in passing to the trio on their way out after the curfew:"That's not on, you shouldn't be out now." And then let them get out anyway when they insisted (not put up a fierce fight as really happened).

That's why Neville is better - he fights fiercely for what he thinks is right. Ron, even when he was on the right, he doesn't fight his friends as well as he should. He can fight Malfoy as fierce as anyone, but when it comes to friends, he's very different.

[nemesister]

Okay, I give. Neville, from the little evidence we have (this scene in PS) is slightly more likely to tell, as the best example, Harry to stop hexing somebody, while Ron is more likely to ask Harry what he is doing and look disapprovingly if he thought Harry was in the wrong but didn't like the boy or man either. Point for Neville, although this is quite unlikely scenario.

On the other hand Harry, like everybody in school, is far more likely to listen to Ron. Nobody ever had a problem with dealing with Neville if he stood up to them, nobody has any respect for him. Therefor he would only suffer from having the responsibility to control his peers (which he would likely take very serious, as his parents were Aurors and did a great job), and being unable to actually live up to the responsibility ever.
That would mean huge stress for Neville and wouldn't help him to build up his self esteem.

Additionally to the little respect Neville gets for his demeanor, there is no objective reason to make him a prefect. The twins were making fun of Ron being a prefect, but with Neville the whole school would think the same thing. He can hardly keep up with some classes, like Potions and Transfiguration. You can't make him a prefect just because he is a good kid, which he definitely is, and expect his peers to not laugh themselves into oblivion about it. They are already busy laughing about him anyway.
I never heard of a school which appointed the by far worst student in class for prefectship.
Even if Ron, Harry, Dean and Seamus were all morally bankrupt bullies, that would only make prefectship that much more impossible for Neville. He would either have to accept that nobody cares about his authority or would get himself hexed and bullied on a daily basis.

(PS: Have you never had a teacher, who was nice and kind but wasn't respected by the students at all? That's not a nice thing to observe. Official authority means very little.)

[changclaire5]

I think I was inadvertantly dragged into a argument I didn't mean to take part :-) I was trying to show that Ron is not a good candidate for school prefect, while you are trying to say Neville would be worse. And without me realizing it, I'm now arguing that Neville would be a good choice. Hm, how did that happen?

Regardless...

I'm not sure if everyone would make fun of Neville if he were made prefect. But even if they would, so what? Neville had been living like that forever, he deals with it well. And he would still perform his duty, which is more than Ron can say for himself. And I believe people ultimately respect tenacity and bow to it - Neville might have to endure quite a bit ridicule at teh beginning. But when people realize that he means business, and is willing to fight for it, they'll eventually back off.

Have you never had a teacher, who was nice and kind but wasn't respected by the students at all

actually no. Where I come from, all teachers are respected, deservedly or not. That might count for our different view on this matter.

[nemesister]

I noticed this. Since when is this post about Neville? :) But there is a reason we are discussing him. You're not asking if Ron sucks as prefect or not, but why Ron was chosen as a prefect and this has a lot to do with the alternatives. Of course I would choose Percy, Hermione and Ernie before Ron, but that wasn't the question, they were chosen anyway.
Lupin was truly an abysmal prefect, but compared to the alternatives he was the best choice.

But even if they would, so what? Neville had been living like that forever, he deals with it well.

He deals well, but it's no fun. He clearly suffers from the comparison to his perfect father and he is stung by dismissive remarks. He keeps to himself and his plants most of the time so that he doesn't have to deal with the stress.

Where I come from, all teachers are respected, deservedly or not. That might count for our different view on this matter.

I think so too, there are huge cultural differences.
Everything I hear from British boy boarding schools (novels, rumors and one guy I know personally*) suggests that the pecking order and bullying between peers is disgustingly extreme. JKR supports that view with Dudley's Smelting stick.
Hogwarts is not that extreme (makes sense since it's a mixed school and JK doesn't want to depress ... much), but goes in the same direction. James and Sirius definitely didn't seem concerned with house-points and we know that two prefects were present, one even strongly opposed to bullying. Social power counts more than a little badge.

*I'm definitely not British, though.

Sorry, I'm a rather verbose. I find all these topics interesting.

[nemesister]

No, but you clearly stated that this is a difference between Neville and Ron, and I proved that it is not.

[changclaire5]

To give Ron a little leeway, he did say something like "let Hermione deal with it" in the twins incident. So we don't really know if he'd rise up to the occation if Hermione was not there. Still, this showed some cowardice of Ron, or at the very least irresponsibility.

I'm not sure if Neville would've been able to stop the twins, but he'd at least try.

[changclaire5]

He doesn't have nearly as much trouble detaching his own identity from the artificial ideal as Neville does.

I don't think so. If anything, I think it's the other way around. At the age of 11, when he just first met Harry, Ron had already expresssed his deeeeeep concern that he had all these brothers to live up to. And when he looked into the Mirror of Erised, he saw himself as headboy and quiddich captain. I'd say this showed Ron's big problem to detach his own desire from the examples his brothers set. And for Neville? As you said already, all is speculation. We really simply don't know.