MCU Timeline for the Origin of The Winter Soldier
I've seen a lot of posts going around about the Winter Soldier, and there is so much conflicting information about when he was created, who created him, who he worked for, etc. that I decided to build a timeline of events to work out answers to these questions. Everything has been fact checked as much as humanly possible with sources from Captain
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I think we're meant to assume that the flashbacks are things Bucky actually saw, although I agree that the visuals and audio that he's remembering don't necessarily match up. I think we have to assume from the Russian furry hat scene, based on a) the fact we can see it at all, and b) the fact that his arm's still bleeding, that Bucky is still alive when they find him, and hasn't been there for very long, a few days at most.
I agree that Bucky was definitely with the Russians before he was with HYDRA. How long he was with either party is pretty much ENTIRELY conjecture but I'd be more inclined to think that he ended up with HYDRA much sooner, while Zola was still corporeal (late '60s?). I have no idea how this was accomplished. Maybe he was captured, or HYDRA traded for/bought him (perhaps the Russians started but did not perfect his brainwashing, making them more willing to trade a useful but risky tool), or HYDRA infiltrated Department X (or the movie equivalent) the way it infiltrated SHIELD and the Nazis before them. Either way I can see HYDRA keeping the red star on his arm to a) maintain the reputation he's already built up and b) confuse his origins.
As far as Bucky "dying" in 1944 and Steve going down in 1945...WELL IF THAT'S THE WAY MARVEL WANTS IT TO BE. It is winter could very well be December and/or January, so...WORST NEW YEAR'S EVER, THANKS MARVEL.
...I need a Bucky/Winter Soldier icon, why don't I have one. :(
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That's exactly how I feel about it! I think his mind made some connections between things like his torture at Zola's hands after Azzano and what was done to him to make him the Soldier (arm surgery, etc.), so they appear in the same flashback, but aren't necessarily literally related in the way we see them.
Bucky is still alive when they find him, and hasn't been there for very long, a few days at most.
And now I'm thinking about poor Bucky waking up after his fall, being woozy from trauma and blood loss, fading in and out of consciousness as he waits for Steve to come rescue him. ;_____; THANKS SATAN.
Either way I can see HYDRA keeping the red star on his arm to a) maintain the reputation he's already built up and b) confuse his origins.
Ooh, I like this! I am basically willing to believe almost anything WRT the handover from Russia to HYDRA, as long as it makes sense. I don't really know exactly what my own headcanon is at this point, since we have no details about the time after he was created except for Natasha's mission outside of Odessa. I want there to be some way he could have been responsible for some of Natasha's training, because I like that backstory, but making her born in 1984 mostly destroys that (unless he was traded in 1991 and she was ~7 when he trained her). JUST GIMME CAP 3 NOW, SO I CAN FIND OUT!!
I think the 1944 date is a props error. Steve mentions Zola getting captured in 1945, and we know he dies in 1945, so I think I'm going to file it in the same pile as that Iron Man 3 newspaper that tries to claim the movie takes place in December 2013, instead of 2012, when it clearly takes place.
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also lol having them both die over the new years seems very marvel actually, headcanon totally accepted /o\
anyway! thank you so so much for this, I need to save it for all my future fic, but especially one I didnt think id be finishing. (and also for putting it on lj, so much easier to read!)
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Marvel, why are you so cruel?! D: I think the logical explanation is that Bucky's wall at the Smithsonian is wrong, but I wouldn't put it past them to be this evil.
Oh, you're welcome! I'm glad for other people to get some use out of it. :D
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"Steve mentions Zola getting captured in 1945," oooooh my brain missed that one, when was that?
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I was writing a post about how the Winter Soldier we see in Cap 2 is clearly not the only Winter Soldier there ever was (AKA, he's done other types of missions, he used to do infiltration like Natasha did, he used to be better groomed and articulate, etc. etc. so quit being wrong tumblr
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Yessssssssssssssssssss, this. Thiiiiiis.
I want there to be some way he could have been responsible for some of Natasha's training, because I like that backstory, but making her born in 1984 mostly destroys that
That's only IF we're assuming Zola has the right date - if you add in Natasha's reputation (both the 'on SHIELD's radar in a bad way' plus her being the golden standard of spying in AoS), skillset, time needed to heal from her own unmaking, time needed to search for Bucky when after 2009 she's busy with SHIELD and Stark and Avengers, suggested freelance career and stated KGB career, plus her probably not being a spy in the past two years thank to New York + partners with Steve, I think it adds up that she's prooooooooooooooobably not thirty at all. And given her weird reactions to Bucky in movie - the collapsing in on herself when she hears 'metal arm', how distressed she is, how BITTER and tired she sounds when she was all 'yeah, tried finding him, THAT didn't work' - I think it's likely she knew Bucky pretty well way back when? So, no need to ditch that backstory.
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I just don't get why tumblr wants the Winter Soldier to be sad and ungroomed for 70 years! They're missing out on a) fic that involves awesome spy-esque missions, and most of all b) the mental picture of Sebastian Stan in tailored mid-century formal wear, infiltrating parties, flirting with beautiful women, and getting close to the Winter Soldier's targets so he can kill them quickly and vanish into the night without a trace. WHY WOULD YOU DEPRIVE YOURSELF OF THAT AMAZINGNESS?! D:
I think it adds up that she's prooooooooooooooobably not thirty at all. And given her weird reactions to Bucky in movie - the collapsing in on herself when she hears 'metal arm', how distressed she is, how BITTER and tired she sounds when she was all 'yeah, tried finding him, THAT didn't work' - I think it's likely she knew Bucky pretty well way back when? So, no need to ditch that backstory.
I looooove this. It totally makes sense, and I could argue even further that it doesn't necessitate Zola being wrong about the date. He could have been hiding information from Steve, just giving him the general cover story that anyone who digs a little into Natasha's past might find. I love it when people come up with good explanations that support my headcanon! :D
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