~7 reasons why Oel is not successful~
I’m sure most of you guys have heard of this write up on the panel and there has been plenty of comments on it here, here, here and all over twitter.
The only reason why I havent commented it yet is because I’ve recently had a ‘revelation’ of sorts so now such things dont bother me much. So this wont be a rant about the article, most people already put up good points and its still gathering comments.
the part that I wanted to address was what C.B Cebulski, talent scout for Marvel said
“Hopefully they’ll go to art school, learn more about the comic form, & give it another go, w/ a company/editor who can guide them this time.”
I whole heartedly disagree with ‘going to art school’ and makes sense that it would be from some in the traditional top 2 super hero companies. I do follow his tweets and read up on his advice, he is some one to listen too but this part does not make sense at all. Here’s why:
1. Art school is too expensive
For the return of investment, oel can not support anyone who has to pay back their loans. I’ve only been there 1 year and thats with me starving and/or borrowing others tools and yet I rack up 70k in loans and many more money in interest and transportation. It makes sense that those seeking to work with Marvel or DC go to schools because eventually the good ones have page rates to pay off. Same with the gaming industry, Those industries have money circulating enough to pay the artists the money to live and pay off loans
2. Art school doesnt mean good
Anyone will tell you it doesnt matter where you go, its what you put into it. When its not a requirement to do what you need to do but hard work, you’ll notice that a majority dont have an ‘art degree’. All art school can do is good guidance and even then, you get some bad apples. I do much better to have a select group of people that have high standards in work to give me guidance then pay 30k a year to huff out ‘school/crap work’ and then be told that I should work on my own stuff to put in portfolio.
3.Art school doesn’t help ‘OEL’ let a lone comic art
I’m sure we’ve all ment art teachers that just didnt like cartoons and didnt consider them art. Now we have a few that do and most all hate manga. I have yet to met a teacher that is unbiased (they dont need to like it) towards manga and that is in all parts of commercial art industry. So how can I expect these same people to teach/support me to do it?
And why bother learn from those that dont work in that style and is not the original source for that money? I have plenty of non-Japanese artist that I admire and can walk up to and ask for help but if i’m going to pay that much money, I wish the schools would request Japanese schools that teach this for guidance or regularly fish info from the original. Japan has plenty of source material like Deleter’s site, the Comikers Magazine, Style school magazine, school professors and editors they can interview but no, they just do exactly the same thing that any artist can do for a lot cheaper.
Also, its too derivative. They (the teachers) learned on their own, they’ve already filtered the art style through their own eyes. They are teaching a filtered version of the art to you, who will then filter it down again, ending up with a 4th gen style of the original source. This again is fine, but not fine when you end up having to pay so much for it.
And there is a major difference in storytelling between the 2 ‘styles’. It may take 30 mins to read a 22 page comic, it takes about 45mins to read a 160 page manga.
4. There is no OEL industry
we need to make it . Why go to an expensive school for 4 years when there is no market for it? it’s like learning to be a realtor for housing on the moon. It just might happen but for the right now it doesn't exist. Judgment has been passed just too early with very inexperienced people from artists to the publisher to even the book stores.
Lets go even lower on the poll, there is a huge doujin convention and many small ones in not just japan but other parts of asia. There is indie cons in western countries and many small press groups at comic conventions. How many manga style comics do you see in those? do you even see much comics at anime conventions? Why should some one stop making 15$ posters to sell 5$ 20 page books? especially since there is no support for it? why should some one stop taking 100$ per character commissions and go for $100 per page (if you can get that that is) for a comic that is a hard sell? Why invest so much money on top of investment of so much time in school and paying off that dept when there is nothing to invest in just yet? You cant have one before the other.
Few wants the burden of building a new industry (one that shouldn't have such a distinction to begin with because if the word ‘manga’ was never imported I doubted we’d be so worked up) against so many odds. We are much better off spending the 4yrs out of school building foundations then going for lofty goals, having to pay back large student loans and self teach all that was not taught. Svet of nightschool spend years building, thats why she is good not because she went to art school to learn comics (I believe she was an animation major).
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I didn't go to SCAD because I believe they could teach me what I could (and doing right now) do on my own. I only went because all resources are close in proximity, including the community (that is just now being warmed up to manga style artists). I left because early on, I notice the doom and gloom about everyone. I also notice the insincerity of this school (manga classes that are basically expensive study hall) and many others with teachers that don't even have 1 year work in any art field.
Again, this is just my post on that comment. I do wish a lot of would be manga-ka be open to other things for their learning. I’ve watched more film, read up on biographies, study other art styles , ect. As such, separating such widely varied things like comic art is useless because its influences are from all things, more so then just illustrations or just literature. There’s no reason for separation of Oel, manga, superhero, and indie since more often then not, it crosses over many times.
I’m budgeting about 1200$ a year to learning my art, a hell lot cheaper then going to art school. Cons for portfolio review, buying teaching material (genome and massive black is really good), reference material, promotion and inspirational material.
*After all , I know very few successful pros that actually went to school for their art. You most likely don't know many either. Art germ, Gina, artist of megatokyo didnt go to school, and yet…
The only reason why I havent commented it yet is because I’ve recently had a ‘revelation’ of sorts so now such things dont bother me much. So this wont be a rant about the article, most people already put up good points and its still gathering comments.
the part that I wanted to address was what C.B Cebulski, talent scout for Marvel said
“Hopefully they’ll go to art school, learn more about the comic form, & give it another go, w/ a company/editor who can guide them this time.”
I whole heartedly disagree with ‘going to art school’ and makes sense that it would be from some in the traditional top 2 super hero companies. I do follow his tweets and read up on his advice, he is some one to listen too but this part does not make sense at all. Here’s why:
1. Art school is too expensive
For the return of investment, oel can not support anyone who has to pay back their loans. I’ve only been there 1 year and thats with me starving and/or borrowing others tools and yet I rack up 70k in loans and many more money in interest and transportation. It makes sense that those seeking to work with Marvel or DC go to schools because eventually the good ones have page rates to pay off. Same with the gaming industry, Those industries have money circulating enough to pay the artists the money to live and pay off loans
2. Art school doesnt mean good
Anyone will tell you it doesnt matter where you go, its what you put into it. When its not a requirement to do what you need to do but hard work, you’ll notice that a majority dont have an ‘art degree’. All art school can do is good guidance and even then, you get some bad apples. I do much better to have a select group of people that have high standards in work to give me guidance then pay 30k a year to huff out ‘school/crap work’ and then be told that I should work on my own stuff to put in portfolio.
3.Art school doesn’t help ‘OEL’ let a lone comic art
I’m sure we’ve all ment art teachers that just didnt like cartoons and didnt consider them art. Now we have a few that do and most all hate manga. I have yet to met a teacher that is unbiased (they dont need to like it) towards manga and that is in all parts of commercial art industry. So how can I expect these same people to teach/support me to do it?
And why bother learn from those that dont work in that style and is not the original source for that money? I have plenty of non-Japanese artist that I admire and can walk up to and ask for help but if i’m going to pay that much money, I wish the schools would request Japanese schools that teach this for guidance or regularly fish info from the original. Japan has plenty of source material like Deleter’s site, the Comikers Magazine, Style school magazine, school professors and editors they can interview but no, they just do exactly the same thing that any artist can do for a lot cheaper.
Also, its too derivative. They (the teachers) learned on their own, they’ve already filtered the art style through their own eyes. They are teaching a filtered version of the art to you, who will then filter it down again, ending up with a 4th gen style of the original source. This again is fine, but not fine when you end up having to pay so much for it.
And there is a major difference in storytelling between the 2 ‘styles’. It may take 30 mins to read a 22 page comic, it takes about 45mins to read a 160 page manga.
4. There is no OEL industry
we need to make it . Why go to an expensive school for 4 years when there is no market for it? it’s like learning to be a realtor for housing on the moon. It just might happen but for the right now it doesn't exist. Judgment has been passed just too early with very inexperienced people from artists to the publisher to even the book stores.
Lets go even lower on the poll, there is a huge doujin convention and many small ones in not just japan but other parts of asia. There is indie cons in western countries and many small press groups at comic conventions. How many manga style comics do you see in those? do you even see much comics at anime conventions? Why should some one stop making 15$ posters to sell 5$ 20 page books? especially since there is no support for it? why should some one stop taking 100$ per character commissions and go for $100 per page (if you can get that that is) for a comic that is a hard sell? Why invest so much money on top of investment of so much time in school and paying off that dept when there is nothing to invest in just yet? You cant have one before the other.
Few wants the burden of building a new industry (one that shouldn't have such a distinction to begin with because if the word ‘manga’ was never imported I doubted we’d be so worked up) against so many odds. We are much better off spending the 4yrs out of school building foundations then going for lofty goals, having to pay back large student loans and self teach all that was not taught. Svet of nightschool spend years building, thats why she is good not because she went to art school to learn comics (I believe she was an animation major).
-
I didn't go to SCAD because I believe they could teach me what I could (and doing right now) do on my own. I only went because all resources are close in proximity, including the community (that is just now being warmed up to manga style artists). I left because early on, I notice the doom and gloom about everyone. I also notice the insincerity of this school (manga classes that are basically expensive study hall) and many others with teachers that don't even have 1 year work in any art field.
Again, this is just my post on that comment. I do wish a lot of would be manga-ka be open to other things for their learning. I’ve watched more film, read up on biographies, study other art styles , ect. As such, separating such widely varied things like comic art is useless because its influences are from all things, more so then just illustrations or just literature. There’s no reason for separation of Oel, manga, superhero, and indie since more often then not, it crosses over many times.
I’m budgeting about 1200$ a year to learning my art, a hell lot cheaper then going to art school. Cons for portfolio review, buying teaching material (genome and massive black is really good), reference material, promotion and inspirational material.
*After all , I know very few successful pros that actually went to school for their art. You most likely don't know many either. Art germ, Gina, artist of megatokyo didnt go to school, and yet…