EBook Discussion Post: "The Borgia Apocalypse"

[sherrilina]

Please join us for a discussion of the eBook of the 2-hour wrap-up movie that would have been, "The Borgia Apocalypse." If you need help finding a copy, please see the previous post.

Comments

[somniesperus]

I had THIS ENTIRE LONG POST and Livejournal ate it. Roar. Anyway, here were my thoughts, at least as much as I remember them, and I apologize for my occasional profanity in advance:

1. Neil Jordan regrets the C/L explicit incest, yes, I get it, I see that. The whole script was such a clumsy retcon of that plotline.

2. The shifting of emphasis from Cesare/Lucrezia to Cesare/Micheletto was just bizarre. I don't even mean from a shipping standpoint, I mean the emotional energy and power. Cesare *says* that Lucrezia means more to him than anything (although, you know what? I think other characters say that way more than he does himself), but his scenes with both Micheletto and Rodrigo are much more emotionally charged and energetic. And they're longer. And there are more of them.

3. Jesus, Cesare turned into a monster. I mean, he's done some truly awful things before, but poisoning half of Naples? Making a bunch of terrified nuns sing along while he stages a slaughter right in front of them? Even the gratuitous awfulness of stabbing Alfonso's corpse a jillion times? Slicing off Caterina's lips? (Note: I am not a scholar of this time period, and I know some awful shit went down, so for all I know, some of those things actually happened. But Good Lord, what a clunky way of working even more darkness into Cesare's already-pretty-dark character.)

4. Random Lesbian Times in a Convent wtf. Ugh, that kind of fanservice is gross.

5. Mucho laffo at the emphasis NJ puts on the mosquitoes at the final dinner party. Oh hey, speaking of which:

6. Lucrezia would not poison her father and brother. Never ever. I can buy that she'd want to escape the toxic environment of her family, I can definitely buy that she'd temporarily take refuge in a place like a convent to get her head back together (in fact, I've already written something along those lines in a fic), but I cannot buy for one single moment that she would actually attempt to murder Rodrigo and Cesare. That was so horrifying and depressing to read. It makes my skin crawl.

(though I must admit, getting della Rovere to take the fall for it was pretty boss)

7. In a perfect world, with a really good fourth season, I wanted to see a) Cesare and Lucrezia actually in a relationship and b) Rodrigo and Vanozza finding out about said relationship. Can you even imagine Jeremy Irons's face in that scene? I bet his nose would melt off or something. Suffice to say, we got none of that. And finally:

8. Rodrigo in Hell. Oh, please.

In conclusion, I hope that somewhere David Oakes, God bless him, is laughing hysterically and slapping his knee. And Francois and Holliday are offering up prayers of gratitude to whatever divine forces they might or might not believe in. And the Showtime execs are strutting out of work today with their chins lifted high, just like, "Yeah, you didn't even know we were saving you. But we did. We are TV Historical Drama Superman, pulling you from a burning building."

[eiko82]

7. In a perfect world, with a really good fourth season, I wanted to see a) Cesare and Lucrezia actually in a relationship and b) Rodrigo and Vanozza finding out about said relationship

THIS SO MUCH!! I've always wondered how both parents would react to the incest or if they even suspected it. I can imagine Rodrigo being totally clueless but I wonder about Vanozza. We all know that Juan had his suspicions about Cesare and Lucrezia being more than just siblings. I can't help but wonder if Vanozza ever suspected anything or if she decided to ignore the hints.

Also, can someone please tell me WHY Cesare cut off Catherina's lips? Why did he think she (or anyone) would deserve such a cruel punishment?

[somniesperus]

Because she put on poisonous lip balm (lol) and was going to kiss Rodrigo with it (lol), and tried to kiss Cesare too. Obvious solution? Cut off her lips, and call her "my love" in a totes creepy way.

[eiko82]

Ewww, gross!!

[meridian_rose]

I skimmed the pdf last night, very late/early hours of the am - and then didn't sleep well, which serves me right I guess. It started off well with Micheletto returning and by the end it was WTF, IDEK, OOC much?!
I'm with you, I want #7 so badly.
Oh, you're the author writing those lovely drabbles! I still haven't commented on ch2 or read ch3 yet but I love them! I'd rather read your season four right now :D

[somniesperus]

Yes, that's me--thank you! I'd rather watch the season 4 that's been playing in my head, too ;)

[vox_angel]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the real Rodrigo died of Malaria (maybe that's the mosquito nod), and I don't think Cesare was ever poisoned...especially by Lucrezia. I'm totally all for taking liberties with the history for a good story. That's pretty much Season 1-3, but I thought he went over the top trying to make the characters unlikable at the end so we wouldn't feel sorry for them when they die tragically. The actual historical figures were fairly effective politicians for their day, and weren't so much more corrupt or violent than anyone else of the time.

And why set up this epic love story for three seasons only to have Lucrezia flake out and betray? It didn't fit the tone or the characters very well. The one thing I can say is that this was a draft script, which would likely have undergone many changes before going to camera. And we would have all been grateful for that!

[ext_2256525]

ok i read the eBook after watching season 3 episode 10, so there was more perspective now I wish the script was turned into a graphic novel and why not ship the final script to another channel like the history channel they could easily take up a 2 hour event or NJ could have went to crowd funding like kick-starter make the 2 hour movie and shop it around or see if the fans of Borgia would come to a tv to movie event. After reading the eBook I totally see that yes it would Lucrezia kill both her father and brother because it's only a Borgia who can love a Borgia and so it would have to be Borgia to kill a Borgia.

Think about she purposely went down the path to fall in love her brother and in the end her brother went to the dark-side to find love. POPE Alexander/Rodrigo was a terribly pope and it would take his daughter to finally whisper that like Icarus he flew to close the sun. The turning Point was seeing her brother kill her husband, she saw her brother turn into Juan, why in heavens name after his life was spared he did not go to France and his marriage of convenience because their is no way he could carry favor in Rome again especially after the Naples Poisoning.

In the End the Borgia men were always going to end in tragedy but the Borgia women would find a way out, since incest is big godly sin the Borgia brother and sister never had a chance and deep down Lucrezia knew this.

since the eBook was only a script with words on a page you had to use your imagination seeing and hearing the actors play out their rolls and characters to the end Showtime did a disservice to it fans and this is not the first time either they franked up the ending of Dexter so the higher ups have shown a complete disregard to their bread and butter and that is the people who pay for the premium prices to watch the channel, maybe that is why HBO, AMC and other channels will be better than showtime.