idk that is exactly what people keep saying and we have a majority now :/
I would certainly like to believe that that will happen, and it may. But honestly politics here don't really work like that? He's already been at the centre of more scandals/terrible decisions/stupid political bs than any other government here in recent memory, and Western Cteanada just voted him in en masse. It's not really about doing bad things pe se, there needs to be a major shift in public perception of him and the Tories and I'm not sure how that will happen.
I mean, I do think that at least right now Canadians have probably gotten more than they asked for? Likely partially the reason they got so many votes is that no one was really calling a majority, it was a possibility but a mostly unexpected one. Canadians are kind of notoriously shy of majority governments but now that we actually have one, the only person with the power to hold another election is Harper.
That means he has 5 years before he has to run another election, 5 years to control public support the way he wants to. By the time he holds an election, he'll be sure that the initial public fear over his majority is long gone.
Not to mention he's tried in the past to completely defund the parties, which is what caused the first coalition attempt. It would be disastrous because the conservative party is the only federal party that doesn't rely primarily on federal funding, and it would seriously cripple all the other parties. I hope he doesn't, but who's going to stop him?
We haven't really had a politician like Harper in power before, and it honestly scares the hell out of me. He's so so controlling, he really wants to be the ~president~ not the PM, and he thinks Canada is "a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it." I'm afraid that even if he is kicked out-at worst, he'll eventually retire-Canadian politics will be irreparably damaged. At the very least, they've forever changed now.
I mean, maybe 8 years ago I would have been more optimistic. But I've watched the United States basically shit itself down a hole politically, and I'm afraid that's going to happen to Canada as well. It doesn't help that we're always affected by their politics anyway.
and omg I just wrote so much fucking tl;dr to someone I don't even know about politics that aren't theirs, I'm sorry you totally don't even need to read this, I just have a lot of feelings right now.
I'm holding out on the hope here that Harper's ultimate goals are so against what the majority of Canadians want that him having absolute power will utterly ruin his street cred. I mean, five years is a long time but I don't think it's long enough to erase the political ethos passed down from the Trudeau era that has had Harper desperate to hide his past as a wingnut, anti-gay, woman hating fundie. Right now he thinks he's changing the political climate in Canada when all he's really doing is covering his tracks and manipulating apathy. Is five years long enough to make us into America?
Will people really be happy if he strips healthcare? If he kills the CBC? If he attempts to destroy the other parties? If he continues to shit all over our international image? If he starts stripping away our social security net?
I agree he's going to do a lot of damage- hell the last time the Conservatives had a majority, they destroyed the economy, but he can't just lie and cover it up forever. Right wingers always suffer a day of reckoning and I just don't think that kind of rhetoric has sway in Canada the way it does in the US because Americans don't understand what a shithole their country is because they've never had better. We have had better and people will notice when he starts us on a downward spiral.
my problem is if he does those things, the force behind the political organizing against it can be much more easily dissipated in 5 years than if he had to deal with an election immediately. I mean, yeah, people will be upset about the CBC, health care, but its much much easier to dismantle that kind of infrastructure than to rebuild it.
also he is (somehow!!!) really really good at manipulating public opinion in the west. I'm a little scared that without Danny Williams the east might budge a bit more as well (although he isn't close to the only reason the atlantics didn't go very conservative)
I mean Canadians are in favour of abortion rights, heck, even conservatives alone poll in favour of abortion rights here, and yet! the Conservatives have defunded PP nationall and internationally. Who cares?
At the very least they're gonna fuck everything up. Worst cast, they defund and cripple the other parties (how much do I like that you don't have to be rich to run here?) and then I really don't even know.
let's live off the government and be female together and i will be gay married and hopefully everything will be okay or at least not totally fucked up beyond repair
Oh, I think Americans know full well what a shithole this country is. The problem is that most of us tend to deal with it by shoving their fingers in their ears and singing the national anthem instead of, you know, actually doing something to improve it.
I'm hoping that what will keep the Conservatives out is the natural dissatisfaction and voter decay of yet another Tory government -- I think that with the economy continuing to go down the drain and still struggling through the economic crisis, something really good would have to happen to keep public perception on their side.
I utterly agree Canadians have gotten more than they asked for, and I'm utterly baffled as to how the majority happened in the first place. Is Canada just seeing a growing conservative shift? Spillover from the increasingly rabid right-wing politics going on just beneath ye? However, I am holding my thumbs that Harper's party itself is going to shift and break apart, because the man has the common sense God did not give the average pudding and by the time another election comes, the party will be destabilized.
I'm horrified too, because this is really a bad omen and not something that's been the face of Canada politics. But I don't think he'll leave the face irreparably damaged. I think that this may at least start to strengthen the youth left as they dimly realise that sitting on their asses is not accomplishing anything.
It doesn't help that we're always affected by their politics anyway.
We all are. All I can do is miserably give you Labourites/leftists sloppy high fives and tell you to keep the faith.
I appreciate the tl;dr immensely; I follow all Commonwealth politics closely, and I really wanted to read it. What you wrote is very measured and stark and spot-on, I just hope that it's -- not. But the hatches will need to be battened.
I'm utterly baffled as to how the majority happened in the first place.
I hate to admit that it was a lot of vote splitting thanks to my party of choice. Who did better than they've ever done before ever, but they didn't pick up enough sway in Ontario or the West to turn the tide. They stole more seats from Liberals than they did conservatives. :/
honestly, I think it was partially that people did not Harper was going to get majority. Canadian's get pretty worried about that, and this campaign it seriously didn't seem too likely
and then whoops
but yeah, it's not even so much vote splitting as that the NDP simply did not break through in the West as much as was necessary.
and i will clutch my non-two party system to my chest with my dying arms okay ;~~~;
hahaha well I can't comment on yours but seriously fuck our green party :T I'm glad May at least stole a seat from the Tories though, best thing she's ever done.
yeah ia ia and i am all for strategic voting, but even the ndp cannot exist without the libs. it will divide the country, we need to have a centrist party for the ndp to function as a socialist party
also i know it may be partially irrational but again two party systems just make me think of the US and we are so close and they influence us so much and it terrifies me!
i will be buried on that mountain and my grave will say ~welp~
I utterly agree Canadians have gotten more than they asked for, and I'm utterly baffled as to how the majority happened in the first place. Is Canada just seeing a growing conservative shift? Spillover from the increasingly rabid right-wing politics going on just beneath ye?
All of the above! In addition, a lot of it is just that people seriously don't get how bad Harper is (just another politician, basically) because they aren't willing to believe that he would seriously be against things like health care, abortion, women, gay people, poor people, everyone east of ontario, that Canadians overwhelmingly poll in support of. I mean, even our fucking tory supporters have polled in favour of abortion rights yet don't seem to understand that this is not in line with the party they're voting for.
Part of it is complicated provincial politics (Alberta's constant butthurt that they make oil money yet have to hand out it to other provinces and ~no one cares about them~, Ontario's strange relationship with QC, etc etc that Harper has played on really effectively.
I am being kind of no fun here but I think Canadian politics have already been some kind of irreparably changed at the very least in the last few years. We've gone in a direction I hate, and most Canadians I think almost certainly hate (DESPITE VOTING FOR HARPER). How could we choose this over increased bursaries for university students, a national child care plan, a better economy (because for an economist Harper fucking sucks at finances okay), and a potential pharmacy plan?
Canadian's want the opposite of what the Tories do, at the very least, and I'm glad of that. But the way Harper has been playing us like a harp makes me terrified he will swing public perception of all the issues Canadians care about.
I think the bitter sauce on this shit cake is that if the election had stopped at the ONT border we would have an NDP government, despite NB.
i am alway up for leftist high-fives followed by leftist crying into my whiskey because holy fuck it's the 80s again right down to the leg warmers
i'm glad i at least ranted forever about politics to someone who cares, hah. I don't know much about Australian politics though, and even less about NZ, unfortunately.
How could we choose this over increased bursaries for university students, a national child care plan, a better economy (because for an economist Harper fucking sucks at finances okay), and a potential pharmacy plan?
Because people are assholes and these things seem intangible until the godawful realisation that you do not have them. Canada's provincial stratification doesn't help. All I can do is hope that the laurels all Canadians laud (like the healthcare system) make people sit up and take notice, only as ever, it will all be too late. It is always too late. But they will take notice anyway.
Canada is generally a few degrees more liberal than America, at the very least -- and more liberal than Australia, as Australia's a lockdown continent fighting a kind of frantic battle against immigration, its own weather and Australians. NZ is liberal as shit and I love it, but this all has a trickledown effect.
I don't know much about Australian politics though, and even less about NZ, unfortunately.
It's okay! We care about you guys
If you want to learn about agriculture I am sure New Zealand would accept the huddled maple-leaf masses yearning to breathe free. In the meantime, leftist crying into leftist whiskey, back in the 80's and waiting breathlessly for ads regarding your meth boyfriend and your meth baby.
Oh yeah and at this point all I can hope is that Harper's almost certainly incoming public campaign to change public opinion on the terrible things he wants to do is not enough to cut through the care that Canadians have nurtured for our public systems.
And yes, despite the Conservative victory we are still way way more liberal than the US as in Canada is actually overall fairly centrist and actually centrist-leaning-left, not skewed US ~well i don't think gay people should be illegal and maybe we should fun public schools after all~ centrist. I'm not sure how public opinion on major issues has pretty much stayed the same despite people voting tory left and right, but I'm grateful regardless.
what people care about Canadian politics
look we have like less people than California, I am not expecting people to care honestly EXCEPT CANADIANS THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE.
I would certainly like to believe that that will happen, and it may. But honestly politics here don't really work like that? He's already been at the centre of more scandals/terrible decisions/stupid political bs than any other government here in recent memory, and Western Cteanada just voted him in en masse. It's not really about doing bad things pe se, there needs to be a major shift in public perception of him and the Tories and I'm not sure how that will happen.
I mean, I do think that at least right now Canadians have probably gotten more than they asked for? Likely partially the reason they got so many votes is that no one was really calling a majority, it was a possibility but a mostly unexpected one. Canadians are kind of notoriously shy of majority governments but now that we actually have one, the only person with the power to hold another election is Harper.
That means he has 5 years before he has to run another election, 5 years to control public support the way he wants to. By the time he holds an election, he'll be sure that the initial public fear over his majority is long gone.
Not to mention he's tried in the past to completely defund the parties, which is what caused the first coalition attempt. It would be disastrous because the conservative party is the only federal party that doesn't rely primarily on federal funding, and it would seriously cripple all the other parties. I hope he doesn't, but who's going to stop him?
We haven't really had a politician like Harper in power before, and it honestly scares the hell out of me. He's so so controlling, he really wants to be the ~president~ not the PM, and he thinks Canada is "a Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term, and very proud of it." I'm afraid that even if he is kicked out-at worst, he'll eventually retire-Canadian politics will be irreparably damaged. At the very least, they've forever changed now.
I mean, maybe 8 years ago I would have been more optimistic. But I've watched the United States basically shit itself down a hole politically, and I'm afraid that's going to happen to Canada as well. It doesn't help that we're always affected by their politics anyway.
and omg I just wrote so much fucking tl;dr to someone I don't even know about politics that aren't theirs, I'm sorry you totally don't even need to read this, I just have a lot of feelings right now.
I really hope you are right though
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Will people really be happy if he strips healthcare? If he kills the CBC? If he attempts to destroy the other parties? If he continues to shit all over our international image? If he starts stripping away our social security net?
I agree he's going to do a lot of damage- hell the last time the Conservatives had a majority, they destroyed the economy, but he can't just lie and cover it up forever. Right wingers always suffer a day of reckoning and I just don't think that kind of rhetoric has sway in Canada the way it does in the US because Americans don't understand what a shithole their country is because they've never had better. We have had better and people will notice when he starts us on a downward spiral.
I mean
Optimistically. (~-_-)~
im scared too cat hold me ;__;
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also he is (somehow!!!) really really good at manipulating public opinion in the west. I'm a little scared that without Danny Williams the east might budge a bit more as well (although he isn't close to the only reason the atlantics didn't go very conservative)
I mean Canadians are in favour of abortion rights, heck, even conservatives alone poll in favour of abortion rights here, and yet! the Conservatives have defunded PP nationall and internationally. Who cares?
At the very least they're gonna fuck everything up. Worst cast, they defund and cripple the other parties (how much do I like that you don't have to be rich to run here?) and then I really don't even know.
let's live off the government and be female together and i will be gay married and hopefully everything will be okay or at least not totally fucked up beyond repair
lksjdfljdjf urggh can we make a pillow fort
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I utterly agree Canadians have gotten more than they asked for, and I'm utterly baffled as to how the majority happened in the first place. Is Canada just seeing a growing conservative shift? Spillover from the increasingly rabid right-wing politics going on just beneath ye? However, I am holding my thumbs that Harper's party itself is going to shift and break apart, because the man has the common sense God did not give the average pudding and by the time another election comes, the party will be destabilized.
I'm horrified too, because this is really a bad omen and not something that's been the face of Canada politics. But I don't think he'll leave the face irreparably damaged. I think that this may at least start to strengthen the youth left as they dimly realise that sitting on their asses is not accomplishing anything.
It doesn't help that we're always affected by their politics anyway.
We all are. All I can do is miserably give you Labourites/leftists sloppy high fives and tell you to keep the faith.
I appreciate the tl;dr immensely; I follow all Commonwealth politics closely, and I really wanted to read it. What you wrote is very measured and stark and spot-on, I just hope that it's -- not. But the hatches will need to be battened.
Feelings are good.
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I hate to admit that it was a lot of vote splitting thanks to my party of choice. Who did better than they've ever done before ever, but they didn't pick up enough sway in Ontario or the West to turn the tide. They stole more seats from Liberals than they did conservatives. :/
Also apathy.
So much apathy
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and then whoops
but yeah, it's not even so much vote splitting as that the NDP simply did not break through in the West as much as was necessary.
and i will clutch my non-two party system to my chest with my dying arms okay ;~~~;
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SORRY
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I will too, but the Greens here have stolen Labour seats so many times that my screams rang out from here to Warkworth.
There are pros and cons, and sometimes us hyperleftists have to swallow and vote for the party that gonna topple the fascist regime.
That said I too will die on that mountain, so high-five.
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yeah ia ia and i am all for strategic voting, but even the ndp cannot exist without the libs. it will divide the country, we need to have a centrist party for the ndp to function as a socialist party
also i know it may be partially irrational but again two party systems just make me think of the US and we are so close and they influence us so much and it terrifies me!
i will be buried on that mountain and my grave will say ~welp~
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THE ONLY EPITAPH THAT MATTERS
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But I mean, not really.
It can be a liberal conspiracy to vote split the right I mean.
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Jenn in my dreams Danny Williams comes in a cape and leads a PC revolution across the country okay it is beautiful
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All of the above! In addition, a lot of it is just that people seriously don't get how bad Harper is (just another politician, basically) because they aren't willing to believe that he would seriously be against things like health care, abortion, women, gay people, poor people, everyone east of ontario, that Canadians overwhelmingly poll in support of. I mean, even our fucking tory supporters have polled in favour of abortion rights yet don't seem to understand that this is not in line with the party they're voting for.
Part of it is complicated provincial politics (Alberta's constant butthurt that they make oil money yet have to hand out it to other provinces and ~no one cares about them~, Ontario's strange relationship with QC, etc etc that Harper has played on really effectively.
I am being kind of no fun here but I think Canadian politics have already been some kind of irreparably changed at the very least in the last few years. We've gone in a direction I hate, and most Canadians I think almost certainly hate (DESPITE VOTING FOR HARPER). How could we choose this over increased bursaries for university students, a national child care plan, a better economy (because for an economist Harper fucking sucks at finances okay), and a potential pharmacy plan?
Canadian's want the opposite of what the Tories do, at the very least, and I'm glad of that. But the way Harper has been playing us like a harp makes me terrified he will swing public perception of all the issues Canadians care about.
I think the bitter sauce on this shit cake is that if the election had stopped at the ONT border we would have an NDP government, despite NB.
i am alway up for leftist high-fives followed by leftist crying into my whiskey because holy fuck it's the 80s again right down to the leg warmers
i'm glad i at least ranted forever about politics to someone who cares, hah. I don't know much about Australian politics though, and even less about NZ, unfortunately.
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Because people are assholes and these things seem intangible until the godawful realisation that you do not have them. Canada's provincial stratification doesn't help. All I can do is hope that the laurels all Canadians laud (like the healthcare system) make people sit up and take notice, only as ever, it will all be too late. It is always too late. But they will take notice anyway.
Canada is generally a few degrees more liberal than America, at the very least -- and more liberal than Australia, as Australia's a lockdown continent fighting a kind of frantic battle against immigration, its own weather and Australians. NZ is liberal as shit and I love it, but this all has a trickledown effect.
I don't know much about Australian politics though, and even less about NZ, unfortunately.
It's okay! We care about you guys
If you want to learn about agriculture I am sure New Zealand would accept the huddled maple-leaf masses yearning to breathe free. In the meantime, leftist crying into leftist whiskey, back in the 80's and waiting breathlessly for ads regarding your meth boyfriend and your meth baby.
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Oh yeah and at this point all I can hope is that Harper's almost certainly incoming public campaign to change public opinion on the terrible things he wants to do is not enough to cut through the care that Canadians have nurtured for our public systems.
And yes, despite the Conservative victory we are still way way more liberal than the US as in Canada is actually overall fairly centrist and actually centrist-leaning-left, not skewed US ~well i don't think gay people should be illegal and maybe we should fun public schools after all~ centrist. I'm not sure how public opinion on major issues has pretty much stayed the same despite people voting tory left and right, but I'm grateful regardless.
what people care about Canadian politics
look we have like less people than California, I am not expecting people to care honestly EXCEPT CANADIANS THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE.
we do have an agricultural college here hmmmm
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