Comments | centeruniverse: Sophie, you'll love this...

centeruniverse

Sophie, you'll love this...

Feb 07, 2005 16:09

I'm taking a class on critical analysis of drama this quarter, and I put myself in the Gay/Lesbian critique group. For my part of my presentation, I'm planning on showing how Frodo and Sam actually do have more than friendship feelings for each other. Anyone have any suggestions for scenes I should show? I only have access to the ROTK DVD, so ( Read more... )

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ladydewinter February 8 2005, 17:52:29 UTC

Whee Sam and Frodo! And of course I have suggestions. These are the ones I immediately thought of, I have more if you need them.

The one where Sam thinks that Frodo is dead. "Don't go where I can't follow". That's a classic *directly* from the book. Maybe the "I can't carry it for you but I can carry you" bit, because they look at each other like they'd kiss, and the one after the ring is destroyed and they are at the end of all times. But Sam does mention Rosie there.

And: definitely the scene in Minas Tirith where Frodo's in bed and everybody comes in and is happy and then Sam enters. That look - that look transcends everything. Love, friendship, romance - it's amazing. And yes, the scene where they say goodbye. I'd say RotK is the gayest moive of them all. If you get hold of FotR, though, there is a scene in Rivendell where Sam takes Frodo's hand. In the commentaries, Sir Ian talks about that moment and how it was very important for him because it was in the book too and well. I ♥ Sir Ian. And Sean Astin actually talks about ( ... )

ladydewinter February 8 2005, 17:53:13 UTC

Most of the time, while acting, the issue didn't cross my mind. The scene on Mount Doom, for example, was uncoloured by sexuality. Sam is cradling Frodo in his arms, crying over the possible loss of his friend. They are fellow travellers, warriors, brothers. To me, that plays less like a love scene than a battlefield death scene. But there were other times - in scenes when the envelope was pushed in a way that invited not just speculation, but an arched eyebrow, as well - when, as a male actor, working with another male, you couldn't help but think, Oh, God, that is so gay ( ... )

centeruniverse February 8 2005, 18:39:17 UTC

Wow...thank you! I knew I could count on you for this, and you've really made the whole project so much easier!

ladydewinter February 8 2005, 18:45:21 UTC

You're welcome :) I'm always glad if I can help. If you have any other questions, just let me know.

centeruniverse February 8 2005, 18:52:02 UTC

I'm sure I will...but you've given me a great place to start!

centeruniverse February 9 2005, 00:02:13 UTC

Here's a question for you:

Do you know of any reviews of the movie that specifically talk about the relationship between Frodo and Sam? Especially ones that claim that there is only friendship between them?

ladydewinter February 9 2005, 02:55:07 UTC

No, I'm sorry. I think there was a mention in one German newspaper, but that very probably isn't online and I don't have the copy anymore either. But did you check in the online archives of magazines like The Advocate or something? There could be something there.

centeruniverse February 9 2005, 21:21:04 UTC

I haven't checked those, but I've noticed that quite a few of the reviews I am coming across either don't mention Sam at all, or only passingly refer to him. I was hoping for something that would explicitly state "Sam and Frodo are just friends" so that I could accuse it of being homophobic...but I guess I'll keep looking. I could always say that the discussion of Sam and Frodo's relationship is conspicuous in its absence.

ladydewinter February 10 2005, 12:27:32 UTC

Yeah, well, I'm not sure you could accuse people of being homophobic if they're saying they're just friends. That's not how it works. I mean, I love them as a pairing, but as a slasher I have to be able to say that the other way - nonsexual way - is just as valid. And while it is possible to read something into it, especially nowadays (I highly doubt Tolkien thought they had anything going on, and relationships were just different back then), it is not the only way, so you have to keep that in mind. And saying that it's conspicuous in its absence... I don't know. I mean, if the reviews only discuss the story in general and special effects and such (as I saw a lot of them do), you can't say that because you could also say the fact that Arwen and Aragorn's relationship isn't discussed either. So you should be careful with that. But it's your call, of course :)

centeruniverse February 11 2005, 14:57:31 UTC

Well, I do understand your point, but I'm not doing the critique from my point of view, I'm doing it from a gay/lesbian critic's point of view. And, according to our book, whenever a critic doesn't mention a pretty obvious homosexual pairing (and, quite honestly, I do think Sam/Frodo is pretty obvious) it's considered homophobic. Espeically if they make a point of calling Sam a "friend" or "sidekick", as I've seen a few do...so far, I haven't found any critiques that even mention the possibility that Sam and Frodo are anything but friends...and I think that in and of itself is conspicuous. With the way the relationship is shown on screen, I would have expected a few people to say, "Hold, on, wait a minute, what exactly is the relationship there?" But no one has.

Also, I'm exclusively focusing on the movie...to my analysis, it doesn't matter what Tolkien wrote or intended...all that matters to me is what I see on screen.

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