Poker lessons for Mary
In the interests of Mary wanting a few pointers here and there, i figured that any time something came up that was valuable to pass along, i would post it:
tonight Davey, Vic and I were playing and this is from the hand Davey took me out on that by getting that 3% miricale on the river that he should have never even attempted to catch...here's why
I raised before the flop, holding K-J...he called holding 7-7...the flop came out Q-Q-9....i bet it and he made the proper read, he guessed I did not have a pocket pair and didn't have a Q, so his hand was still best and he called.....turn comes and the board is Q-Q-9-9....i bet out again...he calls...i also know he doesn't have a Q-9.... river comes Q-Q-9-9-7...i check, he raised all in, i call and he's got a full house...
now why is this worth mentioning...because I played my hand perfectly on the right read and he won with no business being in there...here's why....when he figured out i didn't have a pair yet and his 7-7 was still good, it was OK to stay in on the flop...i was obviously representing two big cards..... after the second nine hits the board, his hand is now trash...both the pairs on the board beat his pocket pair...i'm betting and representing two face cards...his pocket pair becomes a 7 kicker to the two pair.......his logic was he called hoping to get a split pot if, say an Ace came up....however, for the poker learners, this is bad logic...because if the person is representing two face cards, you have to consider that your only savior, besides the 3% chance of getting a 7 is hoping that the face card the bettor has doesn't come up...however, you also have to hope that the missing card doesn't give them a straight either...and you are hoping on a split pot, not good poker play...
once we discussed it afterward, he realized how flawed his thinking was in going for a split pot...although victor continued to argue that with the possibilities of a 7, A, Q or 9, davey had good chances of at least getting his money back... the actual breakdown is 4.5% to win outright and 18% to split....77.5% to lose outright...and vic insisted this is ok... 4-to-1 against is poor odds...but beyond that, that math is using the actual cards in play...if you factor in that there is no way to know what face cards i am holding and an ace is a realistic possibility, the ace cannot be counted on for a split pot (before the cards are turned over)...thus, the real odds are reduced to 4.5% to win, 9% to split, and 86.5% chance to lose...almost 9-1......of course with vic, you can't really explain anything without argument... :-)
the lesson from all this, if you there are two pair on the turn...and both of those pairs are bigger than a third pair (with the exception of maybe Q-Q in your hand) you are holding in your hand. you fold any bet that is made, even if you know they don't have a full house...your weak pair becomes your kicker and you are almost guarateed to lose. The only place that professionals deviate from this is trying to bluff then hand. There are only two choices on the turn when it has been bet in front of you, bluff or fold. A pro would never simply call with a hand that was 9-1 against. And Davey himself, after our discussion, would have folded his hand after the second nine hit.
One last item, for those who wondered why I checked the river card. I believed that my king high with Q-Q-9-9 was the best hand and I wanted him to bluff at it. When he bet, i called right away because all logic in real poker dictated that the 7 on the river should not have given him a better hand. It was the proper play for the proper reasons.
Vic doesn't undertand why we have such lively discussions afterward, but Dave wants to learn how not to do these things where they will likely cost him money :-). At least somebody listens. Oh and in case Vic is reading, telling someone who is considering a bet on the river to "Not step on their own peepee" is a great indicator that you simply don't have the hand you were looking for.....
i still look forward to the Sharky McSharkerson v. Vic showdown...I can't wait until he tries to bully you when you are so innocently holding a MONSTER in your hand.
tonight Davey, Vic and I were playing and this is from the hand Davey took me out on that by getting that 3% miricale on the river that he should have never even attempted to catch...here's why
I raised before the flop, holding K-J...he called holding 7-7...the flop came out Q-Q-9....i bet it and he made the proper read, he guessed I did not have a pocket pair and didn't have a Q, so his hand was still best and he called.....turn comes and the board is Q-Q-9-9....i bet out again...he calls...i also know he doesn't have a Q-9.... river comes Q-Q-9-9-7...i check, he raised all in, i call and he's got a full house...
now why is this worth mentioning...because I played my hand perfectly on the right read and he won with no business being in there...here's why....when he figured out i didn't have a pair yet and his 7-7 was still good, it was OK to stay in on the flop...i was obviously representing two big cards..... after the second nine hits the board, his hand is now trash...both the pairs on the board beat his pocket pair...i'm betting and representing two face cards...his pocket pair becomes a 7 kicker to the two pair.......his logic was he called hoping to get a split pot if, say an Ace came up....however, for the poker learners, this is bad logic...because if the person is representing two face cards, you have to consider that your only savior, besides the 3% chance of getting a 7 is hoping that the face card the bettor has doesn't come up...however, you also have to hope that the missing card doesn't give them a straight either...and you are hoping on a split pot, not good poker play...
once we discussed it afterward, he realized how flawed his thinking was in going for a split pot...although victor continued to argue that with the possibilities of a 7, A, Q or 9, davey had good chances of at least getting his money back... the actual breakdown is 4.5% to win outright and 18% to split....77.5% to lose outright...and vic insisted this is ok... 4-to-1 against is poor odds...but beyond that, that math is using the actual cards in play...if you factor in that there is no way to know what face cards i am holding and an ace is a realistic possibility, the ace cannot be counted on for a split pot (before the cards are turned over)...thus, the real odds are reduced to 4.5% to win, 9% to split, and 86.5% chance to lose...almost 9-1......of course with vic, you can't really explain anything without argument... :-)
the lesson from all this, if you there are two pair on the turn...and both of those pairs are bigger than a third pair (with the exception of maybe Q-Q in your hand) you are holding in your hand. you fold any bet that is made, even if you know they don't have a full house...your weak pair becomes your kicker and you are almost guarateed to lose. The only place that professionals deviate from this is trying to bluff then hand. There are only two choices on the turn when it has been bet in front of you, bluff or fold. A pro would never simply call with a hand that was 9-1 against. And Davey himself, after our discussion, would have folded his hand after the second nine hit.
One last item, for those who wondered why I checked the river card. I believed that my king high with Q-Q-9-9 was the best hand and I wanted him to bluff at it. When he bet, i called right away because all logic in real poker dictated that the 7 on the river should not have given him a better hand. It was the proper play for the proper reasons.
Vic doesn't undertand why we have such lively discussions afterward, but Dave wants to learn how not to do these things where they will likely cost him money :-). At least somebody listens. Oh and in case Vic is reading, telling someone who is considering a bet on the river to "Not step on their own peepee" is a great indicator that you simply don't have the hand you were looking for.....
i still look forward to the Sharky McSharkerson v. Vic showdown...I can't wait until he tries to bully you when you are so innocently holding a MONSTER in your hand.