A PANDORA HEARTS TIMELINE

[ceitean]

***ETA: JULY 17, 2012***

ahahaha, this was made in 2009. Wow.

So yeah, this thing needs to updated, stat. I'm working on it right now, in fact, though it may take me a while to put in all the new information.

But I think I'm gonna leave this version of the timeline here. For posterity. (and so we can all laugh at ourselves over how wrong wrong wrong

Comments

[orchida]

This is actually really brilliant because I'm trying to write fic and you've helped me with certain parts and saved me from making some mistakes too.

??? D. S. - Jack has a confrontation with someone, Gilbert sees it. Jacks tells Gilbert to stay back.

??? D. S. - Gilbert gets slashed on the back trying to protect Jack.

??? D. S. - Jack picks up a bloody sword, and then goes to Glen.

??? D. S. - Gilbert points a knife at Alice with Vincent behind him. ‘Because of you! My master is in such agony because of you.’

I'd put the last sentence before the first paragraph. Just because it doesn't (unless I'm way wrong, this is pandora after all) make much sense that Gilbert is stabbed one second then up and pointing knives at Alice in the next.
I've been wondering though, was Gilbert actually dead after being stabbed? Does Glen need a recently dead body to perform his transformation, or was Gilbert merely on the cusp of dying and so easier for Glen to take over his body. This is where it all gets confusing because from the translation, Alice is telling Vincent, Gilbert is dead. But it's never been properly explained how he came back to life. Maybe to truly kill him, Glen would have had to perform his ritual, hence why Alice would tell Vincent his brother is going to die...

I can't think of any other points that you've left out... or seem incorrect. But I am glad you pointed out that part about the Nightray's and why they are hated. (I should really re-read the manga at some point). It's been bugging me for a while and for the life of me I couldn't remember why they were viewed as the bad guys. Though now I seem to remember there being a point about them generally being the ones that dealt with the misgivings others didn't want to...

Although from reading the beginning, I'm now wondering if Lacie could have somehow been related to Alice(s). Maybe she is/was a Baskerville?

[ceitean]

I figured it could be a really good resource for fic writers, which is part of why I want it to be as accurate as possible (also, I'm anal like that).

You pinpointed the one part that drove me crazy when I made this thing. XD Cuz I agree, it doesn't make sense that Gilbert could be stabbed, then get up to go and point a knife at Alice, then be passed out when Vincent drags him around in Abyss.

But then we have this, where Gil is holding a bloody knife (somewhat) next to a bloody Jack. And the pointing-a-knife-at-Alice thing is the biggest piece of evidence for it being Gilbert who killed Alice. Depending on where this one event is placed, could change everything.

Personally? I think Alice was lying when she told Vincent that Gilbert was dead. She'd certainly want to hurt Vincent - he did cut out her cat's eyes, after all. The part about Glen wanting to use Gilbert's body may have been true, though it does bring up the question of who told her about that in the first place, when we know hardly anyone other than Jack goes to visit her.

Then later, when Vincent goes into the Abyss and sees White Alice, he says that Jack is dead, when in fact we know that Jack survived the night long enough to agree to having his body cut up into five pieces by Arthur Barma, as well as write that journal entry. I think Vincent was getting back at Alice for saying Gil was dead in the first place by telling her that her precious person was dead as well.

The Nightray thing - most of the information about this came from Gil talking about the kidnap attempt (which really, wtf?) and Break.

Anyway. Think I should change the Gilbert holding a knife thing?

[orchida]

It is! I'd made a tiny mini one for ages and the like, which I'm glad to see we agree on, but this includes information I was just going to take a guess at.

Oh, well it makes no sense at all, does it? I'm one of those of the opinion that it seems most likely Gilbert did stab her too. (at least for the moment) Which makes no sense if he's knocked out/half dead himself.

I think Alice was probably being spiteful too. I get the impression that Glen doesn't like Alice, or make contact with her as much as possible. In fact the only reason I could make sense of him telling her would be if she was somehow involved in the process, or had overheard something and elaborated on it herself, just to hurt Vincent.

I think the two of them are just lying children trying to get back at each other, you know, and seriously messed up.

Which kidnap attempt? I think I may be having memory loss... Unless it's the newest chapter, which I've not read yet. I try not to look at the spoilers, but failed a tiny bit...

Well I think I've contradicted myself. And it all just honestly depends, did Glen stab Gil and kill/pretty damn near kill him? Or was it just a sort of surface scratch that he kind of recovered from? If it's the former then yes, and to me it just doesn't make sense like I said earlier. (This must have driven you crazy!) It all depends on if anyone in this series can actually tell the goddamn truth!!!

I think it makes more sense to at the moment though.

[ceitean]

It all depends on if anyone in this series can actually tell the goddamn truth!!!

This, a million and one times! XD

ooo, what you said about Alice being involved in the process. Now that is fascinating. And would make a lot of sense considering that she had control of the power of abyss.

kidnap attempt - don't worry, this isn't in the new chapters. ^_^ It looks like it happened very soon after Gil became Oz's servant, since they were both really young looking. Oz mentioned it in the second chapter while talking to Alice to explain why he was taking being in the Abyss so calmly (he takes everything at face value); and then later, in a flashback, Gilbert mentions it before his 'I will always be your servant,' speech.

Though now that you mention it, I should probably put MASSIVE spoiler warnings on this thing, huh? *sheepish*

Oh my god, all of Gilbert's memories drove me bonkers. -_- Freaking Gilbert...

oh, to your earlier question - omg, I have no idea what the hell is up with Lacie. She's shown double, which is weird, but not that weird, if you think about it - we've already got two pairs of doubles in Alice/White!Alice and Echo/Zwei. The only thing I can make are some wild ideas that Lacie was either like Echo and Alice or she was alive and then brought back from the dead by Glen or ....etc etc. Really, I have no clue. /o\ Right now I think the most fascinating thing is that she was buried at the mansion, which I'm starting to be 75% sure is the Baskerville mansion. (or else it's Latowidge)

I think I'll put an asterisk next to it or something to explain that the chronology in that part is even more iffy that usual. XD

[lishypo]

I don't remember Lacie being shown as double (I don't remember her being shown at all; memory of later chapters is REALLY fuzzy), but would that maybe have something to do with "Lacie" being an anagram of "Alice"? I always thought because of that there had to be a strong connection between the two...

[ceitean]

Here, in chapter 37, page 32 -



And I know there's another time this double image popped up, but I'm having trouble finding it at the moment. Will update when I do.

There probably is a connection between the two, especially since Lacie was said to have been 'sacrificed to the abyss.' We don't know what that connection is, though. All we do know is that Alice is a double, Echo is a double, and Lacie, in her two appearances, is shown with two images. Who knows what the anagram is supposed to signify- at this point we have absolutely no way of telling. *sigh*

but hi! *waves*

eta: Got it! Beginning of chapter 37, page 4 -

[lishypo]

Hi! :D/

Seriously, the brain breakage this series causes... It's no wonder I keep getting so many headaches lately. x_x

One thing that confuses me a lot about W!Alice and C!Alice, they say that they're twins, one born in the Abyss and the other born "naturally" in the real world? I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that because when I think twins I think one uterus, sharing mommy's belly, playing patty-cake through the placenta "loves watching how babies are made shows >.>* Unless they did share an actual mother who gave birth to one in the Abyss and the other outside and UGH that just makes it more complicated. I'm high on sleeping pills, I should really stop fighting them now. @_@

Oh, but W!Alice can take over H!Alice's body whenever she wants. When she does that, what happens to the other Alice? Does she go into the Abyss in the Will's place or is her personality just suppressed? The other doubles are different because they don't have a direct connection to the Abyss the way the Alices did.

What if the Alices were the daughters of Glen and Lacie? I can't remember enough to elaborate on that little theory, but I sure do have fun noodling with you. ^^

Hmm, it might be a minor thing, but in the light/happy picture of Lacie it looks like she's sporting Alice's braids.

I'm sorry if this comment is all convoluted. ;_; Fandom is more fun than sleep right now.

[ceitean]

Fandom is more fun than sleep right now.

haha, that's pretty much my life in a nutshell. XD

The way I've been looking at it is, there's only one 'body' that was born from a human woman and two souls that share that body. So one spirit would have a physical manifestation while the other has like, as incorporeal form in the Abyss. Maybe it's possible that the woman in question (who, hey, may have been Lacie, who knows) actually gave birth inside of the Abyss, which could have caused the split? <--wild, unsubstantiated speculation

Then again, I could be wrong about all of it. ^_^

[lishypo]

Maybe it's possible that the woman in question (who, hey, may have been Lacie, who knows) actually gave birth inside of the Abyss, which could have caused the split? <--wild, unsubstantiated speculation

This this! That's what I wanted to say! Too complicated to work out--I keep nodding off every ten seconds. ><

I'm down with what you're saying about one physical body. It was just worded/translated in a way in the manga that confused me. :(

[ceitean]

Yeah, there are a couple of translations in the manga that I wish could be more clear. *scratches head* But my Japanese is horrible horrible horrible, so if I want some things cleared up, I'd have to ask someone else to do it and I don't feel like being that much of a pain. XD

But, you know, if anyone's reading this and feels like volunteering, I've got a list of things you could maybe look at... :D?

[crackjaw]

Um. I could try, if nobody volunteers? I'm nowhere near the best person for it but I'm probably better than nothing, if nobody else wants to. I'd probably have already looked at it myself but I only have the first five volumes in Japanese (MUST REMEDY THIS).

[ceitean]

ooo, that would be awesome! gimmie a bit and I can get a list of a couple things together. Off the bat, I know I'd love to get another interpretation of Glen's speech to Oz and if Alice said Gil was already dead or if he was going to die.

And in the Cheshire arc, when Vincent and Oscar have their chess game, Oscar yells something that wasn't translated at all in the scans- it was just a copy of another bubble.

And (okay, I'm gonna stop soon) when Oz runs up the tower, right before he sees the dead Alice, Jack says something to him that didn't get translated right before he says 'and Alice is B-rabbit.'

...i did say it was a list. ^_^;;

[crackjaw]

OTL I'd be happy to help as much as I can! Don't expect it to be the best translation ever, though, I'm nowhere near fluent. My problem is mostly with vocabulary (since anime and manga use vocab that just isn't taught in textbooks), though, and I have a good dictionary.

Ahhh, I noticed there were a lot of copies of other bubbles in the Black Abyss's translations and I was like wtf. I really need to get the rest of the volumes in Japanese so I can attempt to answer my own questions!

Aaaanyway, I actually have to go to breakfast right now but when I come back I will attempt to track down raws and translate them to the best of my ability ♥ since Curious? is down

[ceitean]

Hey, whatever you can do is awesome. :D

Have a nice breakfast!

[crackjaw]

Actually, would it be possible if you could tell me the pages each are on, or at least the chapters? I haven't read it in a while, so I don't remember where exactly each instance is.

I wasn't able to find raw downloads that weren't torrents, so I probably won't be able to help you with the first one, but I do own the Cheshire arc volumes.

[ceitean]

of course!

Ch. 17-28: The Oscar bubble

Ch. 19-30: What Jack says before 'Alice is B Rabbit'

Ch. 38-42: Was killed or will be killed by Glen

Ch. 37-12 and 32: Glen's cracktastic speech