Really geeky Tudor England discussion
So I read The Other Boleyn Girl this weekend. It's about Mary Boleyn, sister to Anne (most sources I've checked seem to indicate she was older than Anne, but the book makes her a few years younger)--she was also Henry VIII's mistress after Bessie Blount and before he was involved with Anne. Mary was also rumored to be Francois I's mistress (both
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as for the family thing-ihstory supports that anne did formally adopt henry carey; however, his true parentage is in question-carey acknowledged him, but some historians describe him as being a classic tudor in looks. back then, when someone adopted a child, that child became the true blood of the adoptive parents, regardless of the life status of the birth parents. however, as long as henry had a real blood heir he could not have been in the succession unless henry had acknowledged him as his.
in addition, one of the reasons henry was able to divorce katherine of aragon was his inability to father a son on her...it was the divine will of god that she wasn't his true wife because of that lack...henry was very devout that way (well, mostly when it suited him; however, he thought he was very devout)
as for the losing interest when his wives were pregnant, historians seem to agree that this was the case-henry was very selfish and while he was proud of his ability to get his wives pregnant, he was a very selfish man and needed his "ego" stroked. he had no interest in his children when they were born female-and lost interest in his wives when the children were female or when they were miscarried. the only children he ever seemed to express interest in were his son by blount and his son by jane seymour. a large part of the succession issues had to do with the fact that by having his marriage to katherine of aragon annulled, mary was technically made a bastard and he denounced elizabeth as being the daughter of a minstrel-even though before anne was beheaded, mary was "given" to elizabeth as a maid...
i am rather a henry viii buff...read anything i can get my hands on...the jean plaidy books are all wonderful...a nice balance to the philippa gregory books-another really good one is by margaret george, "an autobiography of henry the viii with notes by his fool will sommers, " which is not easy read, but is excellent-and very well grounded in fact-it's a really good overview of henry as a whole and good for grounding the sequence of events and how henry changed over the years.
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I knew there was speculation about Henry Carey but not the specifics (I didn't know what he looked like or anything). Henry Fitzroy and Henry Carey (if necessary) would've always been heirs-in-waiting after Edward VI, since he was legitimate....Also I've heard that Henry was pretty decent about the Princesses Mary and Elizabeth being born girls--that is he sucked up his disappointment and put a good face on it. It is a fact that he needed a boy to secure the weird and weak claim to the throne that he had (it's fascinating that as weak as the Tudor claim was, he solidified the power unto the throne in a way that hadn't been seen since his great-uncle Richard III!).
What did you think about Henry's promiscuity in the book? I've always thought of Henry as fairly conventional--more wives than mistresses, thought of himself as a Catholic even though he broke the power of the Church--but TOBG seemed to think of Henry as pretty horny.
It's fascinating to think that with all those wives, he got ONE legal son, ONE perfect legal heir. No wonder he was going nuts.
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and he never acknowledged henry carey as his (hence he had the surname carey and not fitzroy-and he was adopted by anne, not anne and henry)-not sure what happened to him...should look into that...although he COULD have inherited post adoption as a full heir (even before anne). i am not sure why he didn't after edward, except for possibly for mary's preventing it, or the howard taint...or henry's obsession with having a "true heir" follow him...
the margaret george book and the jean plaidy books deal with henry's promiscuity VERY well...they portray henry as history tends to-as supremely selfish and many devoutly religious with crises of conscious-changing and interpreting rules to suit himself...and certain lapses where women are involved-and the resulting "guilt" after...
i think henry was mad, personally-almost a fractured personality, which would actually be in keeping with british royalty...devoutly religious, but selfish; hence, always at war with himself...ultimately, he did what made him feel best and found ways to justify it after. that being said, he WAS more faithful to his wives than many men of his day.
he was a child-always playing games and then having tantrums when things didn't go his way. in many ways, the phrase "absolute power corrupts absolutely" applies to him in many ways...
edward was sick from day one...born premature with all the common lung issues common to preemies. the fact he lived as long as he did was rather a miracle...his only acknowledged healthy son was bessie blount's...
as a note the weeping sore on his thigh that is thought to have killed him is consistent with syphillis...and many historians believe that he did indeed have "the french disease"...
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I think you're right about Henry's insanity--when you consider what happened to Margaret Pole--I mean, that's just butchery. I think that constant worrying about the King's Great Matter must've taken quite a toll. I actually do sympathize with him about that but after awhile he went around the bend. I thought TOBG made a fascinating point about the degradation of the law and the treatment of women, how Anne had set a bad precedent.
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