I'm sure that many of you have heard the news that 5 cardinals have petitioned the Pope to make an ex cathedra pronouncement declaring a fifth Marian dogma, that Mary is Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Graces.
annabellissima and I spent yestserday evening doing a bunch of web-reading on the subject. We're both ok with the title of Co-Redemptrix when
(
Read more... )
Comments 56
I think, speaking as a mariologist, that this proposed dogma is a terrible idea for all the reasons you cite in the last paragraph. The petition is largely EWTN-driven, adding more to my intense dislike of that organization.
Reply
I took a class on Mariology last semester and it was my first real encounter with this doctrine. The professor was a very big supporter of it and was downright shocked when his simple questions on the reading led to a heated discussion on the subject, as if it wasn't something universally accepted. I was a little frustrated, to say the least.
The ecumenical problems inherent in this are my biggest pet peeve (aside from the idea that we should mostly only pray to Mary because only she can make our prayers perfect--oh, St. Louis de Montfort)--as if proclaiming the Assumption wasn't enough to set back the Orthodox/Roman ecumenical process by decades. *shakes her head*
Anyway, I hadn't heard the news, but I'm with tepintzin on this one that Pope Benedict will continue with his "respectful silence" on the issue.
Reply
The Immaculate Conception, though, we do have a problem with, since it presupposes a view of Original Sin which we do not teach.
Reply
May I ask what view of Original Sin you're referring to?
Reply
I mean to me, I only took the Mediatrix of All graces because she was the vessel that Christ entered the world by. That's it. Christ was the Mediator of all that Grace that God intended for us, and she was the vessel of the Mediator.
Can any really clarify why Mary's the Mediatrix of all Graces? Is there an official explanation?
Reply
That applies to co-Redemptrix, but not really Mediatrix. Mary played a direct, not just ancillary role in the Incarnation, and no one else really did. Her intercession is also seen as universal, which others' are not. Co-Redemptor/ix *could* be applied to many people because of their role in redemption, but "mediation" is something different.
Can any really clarify why Mary's the Mediatrix of all Graces? Is there an official explanation?
There is none. It isn't dogma, not authoritative teaching, so there is nothing really "official." Leo XII (I think I got the right Leo) wrote about it in a couple of Encyclicals, but that doesn't make it official or dogmatic either.
Reply
Reply
Paul said to the Colossians, "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church," not because Christ's sacrifice wasn't good enough, but because God allows all of us to suffer, to a greater or lesser degree, for others. Mary's sufferings no doubt benefitted and will benefit many souls, and Mary's choice to become the mother of God made Christ's sacrifice for us possible. That's how it's possible to say that she can do anything redemptive for us.
I do not recall hearing any group, ever, suggesting that Mary be named as the third Person of the Trinity, aside from Muslims who say that this is what the Trinity already is and the Collyridians who worshipped Mary as a goddess. That would definitely be heretical, you're absolutely right, but this is not the same as that, just like saying "Jesus is our brother" does not mean that our ( ... )
Reply
I think that we're saying the same thing, i.e., is useful when united to the sufferings of Christ; it helps others as well as benefiting us. This passage in the Hours bothered me until it was explained by my spiritual director. It's very good to have a director for instances like now.
In honesty That's how it's possible to say that she can do anything redemptive for us. I cannot see Mary doing anything redemptive. For me, when someone talks about redemption or salvation, that comes from Christ so I truly in my heart cannot accept this ( ... )
Reply
It seems that we agree but in different terminology. That's how it's possible to say that she can do anything redemptive for us.I can't accept this. I've been in classes and spiritual direction when this was discussed and each time I've been told/taught that ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Ah, Nicky Gruner, bringing the batshit as always.
Reply
Reply
Reply
If Mary is co-Redemptrix, then we also would have to say that John the Baptist, Peter, and possibly even Judas Iscariot were also co-redeemers. Especially given the fact that it will be wildly misinterpreted by everyone as soon as it's pronounced and the danger of cheapening the sacrifice of the Cross, this seems like dangerous water for the Church to tread as a whole. If individuals will go there, it's probably okay, but it deserves only magisterial silence.
Mediatrix of All Grace seems heretical to me. It doesn't really tell us anything we should know or which is helpful to our spiritual lives, and it seems to elevate Mary unnaturally. Even if she happens to mediate graces, she does so subordinate to Christ and it's Christ that we should keep in mind, and not his mom, cool a lady as she is.
Reply
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
1. That when Christ entered the world, he did so without destruction or pain.
2. (potentially) That Mary and Joseph were transformed by the events of their lives such that they didn't want to have sex.
3. (My preferred explanation) Joseph was old and Mary wasn't - this means Jesus' brothers were older half-brothers and that Jesus wasn't a terrible kid for not getting married and supporting his family the way older brothers were bound by Jewish law and custom to do.
Reply
Leave a comment