More garbage from the NYT...fervid_dryfireAugust 9 2009, 16:45:10 UTC
Aside from your op-ed columnist clearly being the typical anti-gun idiot, he brings up a good point- but he fails to acknowledge that the most consistent theme in serial/spree killings is that THE PEOPLE TARGETED ARE DEFENSELESS, or are at least presumed to be. Sex has absolutely no bearing on this: if any one of the people in any of the scenarios he mentioned had chosen to equip themselves with the ability to defend one's self- especially including these "absurdly easily available" guns, you'd have one dead (or at least incapacitated) shooter and few (if any) victims on the scene.
You're right, though- it is worth re-posting, so that people can see how NYT employees like to whine and play the victimization game on other peoples' behalf while ignorantly criticizing things they don't understand or appreciate.
Re: More garbage from the NYT...catheAugust 9 2009, 23:58:03 UTC
While I will give you the right to say that these women were defenseless, I will not and cannot simplify the whole article to guns, or the lack thereof. This isn't really about GUNS, it's about the fact that as a culture, we see less problem with misogyny-fueled crimes than any other kind. When you dismiss the heart of the article, you dismiss and affirm the misogyny. WOMEN were targeted, and no one seemed as horrified as if race had been the reason for being targeted. Given the cultural implications of the crimes, not the fact that these women were unarmed, this article is spot on.
Also, how the hell could the women in the gym attack be armed while doing AEROBICS?? Wouldn't that be dangerous? Or do you two stay armed while in the gym, or doing your weekly runs?
Re: More garbage from the NYT...fervid_dryfireAugust 10 2009, 03:23:00 UTC
Also, how the hell could the women in the gym attack be armed while doing AEROBICS?? Wouldn't that be dangerous? Or do you two stay armed while in the gym, or doing your weekly runs?
It's possible, easy to do, and the only time I don't do it is when I'm swimming (and I don't swim much). It's no more dangerous than a cop carrying his gun while running to catch a suspect (or, less often, riding a jolting horse while on horse patrol).
Re: More garbage from the NYT...thudpuckerAugust 12 2009, 01:17:31 UTC
I apologize - I've been planning to reply to this for the last two days, but... well, life. You understand.
Am I horrified that women were targeted? Yes. I'm a Southern gentleman, and I believe that those who target women because they believe them to be helpless targets (not that I believe that, myself) are... well, words fail me. Gestures might be more appropriate.
But I digress.
I agree with you. Yes, it's not just about guns. I believe, though, that there are misogynists out there, and that they believe that women are defenseless. What fervid_dryfire and I are both saying is that if women rely on others to protect them from people like this, then they're limiting themselves. If someone doesn't like you for your gender, and you weigh a hundred and five pounds and HE weighs two hundred and too many, then it's going to be difficult to defend yourself if you don't have an equalizer.
You talked about the 'absurdly easy availability of guns'. The problem is, the bad guys will always be able to get their hands on guns. Why would anyone
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Re: More garbage from the NYT...catheAugust 12 2009, 15:11:32 UTC
Honestly, I don't have a gripe about guns being easily accessed, except when the system fails and gives guns legally to the nutbags that commit crimes such as these. I personally carry a small, wickedly sharp, legal, easily opened knife with me all the time, because it fits(unnoticeably) in my hands and is a pretty decent equalizer for me. If I am walking home or feel uneasy in a situation, you bet your ass that knife is in my hand, with my thumb on the knob that allows it to flick open quickly. I, however, do not feel comfortable owning a gun, which is my own deal. Women owning guns is not a problem for me.
My gripe is that SOCIETY has and will continue to brush aside misogyny and sexual harassment as women just being uptight, and that allows the type of thinking that perpetuates these crimes. When no one stopped this guy and said "That comment you made was WRONG!" if he said something misogynistic, (like they would have if it were racist) that's my screaming ranting raging gripe. That's the article's point.
Re: More garbage from the NYT...catheAugust 12 2009, 15:13:03 UTC
Mind you, I am aware that bringing a knife to a gun fight is a quick way to get shot, but I also am more comfortable with my little knife than I would be with a little gun.
Re: More garbage from the NYT...catheAugust 10 2009, 00:03:18 UTC
There was a 20/20 episode a while back about guns, and the issues surrounding them. They took half a dozen people, some with gun license and training, some without, and gave them guns and several hours of training. Then they were put into a classroom, as further 'training', where an armed assailant came in and 'shot up' the place with a pellet gun. Not a single one of these people, especially the most gun-trained and familiar of the group(who had spent hundreds of hours hunting/range shooting with guns), managed to get their guns out of their holster and a successful shot off. It takes months of constant, vigilant training to be able to do that, and constant traing thereafter to keep that skill--like the ones that military, police, and secret service receive. NOT the average citizen.
Re: More garbage from the NYT...fervid_dryfireAugust 10 2009, 03:59:48 UTC
If you're talking about the "If I Only Had a Gun" episode, it's complete BS. Massad Ayoob- a former police officer and general firearms expert- wrote a comprehensive article that, along with praising a recent "60 minutes" story, lambasted the episode you mention
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Re: More garbage from the NYT...fervid_dryfireAugust 10 2009, 04:04:26 UTC
PS:
"I just decided not to be a victim" Lance Thomas, a normal non-firearms-expert guy who ran a watch store, had not one but several shooting encounters he survived.
You're right, though- it is worth re-posting, so that people can see how NYT employees like to whine and play the victimization game on other peoples' behalf while ignorantly criticizing things they don't understand or appreciate.
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Or, to put it more succinctly:
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"God may have made man, but Samuel Colt made man equal."
Woman, too, in my opinion.
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Also, how the hell could the women in the gym attack be armed while doing AEROBICS?? Wouldn't that be dangerous? Or do you two stay armed while in the gym, or doing your weekly runs?
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It's possible, easy to do, and the only time I don't do it is when I'm swimming (and I don't swim much). It's no more dangerous than a cop carrying his gun while running to catch a suspect (or, less often, riding a jolting horse while on horse patrol).
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I apologize - I've been planning to reply to this for the last two days, but... well, life. You understand.
Am I horrified that women were targeted? Yes. I'm a Southern gentleman, and I believe that those who target women because they believe them to be helpless targets (not that I believe that, myself) are... well, words fail me. Gestures might be more appropriate.
But I digress.
I agree with you. Yes, it's not just about guns. I believe, though, that there are misogynists out there, and that they believe that women are defenseless. What fervid_dryfire and I are both saying is that if women rely on others to protect them from people like this, then they're limiting themselves. If someone doesn't like you for your gender, and you weigh a hundred and five pounds and HE weighs two hundred and too many, then it's going to be difficult to defend yourself if you don't have an equalizer.
You talked about the 'absurdly easy availability of guns'. The problem is, the bad guys will always be able to get their hands on guns. Why would anyone ( ... )
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My gripe is that SOCIETY has and will continue to brush aside misogyny and sexual harassment as women just being uptight, and that allows the type of thinking that perpetuates these crimes. When no one stopped this guy and said "That comment you made was WRONG!" if he said something misogynistic, (like they would have if it were racist) that's my screaming ranting raging gripe. That's the article's point.
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"I just decided not to be a victim" Lance Thomas, a normal non-firearms-expert guy who ran a watch store, had not one but several shooting encounters he survived.
A 10-minute story on him
A very detailed written analysis of the above.
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