Breaking points

[sblmnldrknss]

What is your breaking point on getting rid of a pet? Dog? Cat? Are they different? I don't mean moving or allergies, but I mean animal behaviors.

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Comments

[sblmnldrknss]

"You came to a debate community. You said you had an anxious dog that had gotten progressively worse under you care. You said that you hadn't gotten professional help for these later emerging issues that are causing you to want to surrender her. You said that over the course of the time you've had her you've been dealing with family needs that prevented you from giving her the kind of intensive, one-on-one interaction and exercise she's needed, and have been cooping her up by necessity, including being in her crate around the clock most recently."
Nope. That is NOT what I said. I said the latest issues, when presented to trainers, I was told training would not resolve them to a point of my dog being safe around my children and other dog. What I said about my family situation was that despite it, we were still putting time and attention toward helping her. And I put her in the crate THIS MORNING. Nice job blowing things out of proportion. And guess what? My kids don't get one on one time, except my 3 year old sometimes during the day when my 8 year old is at school, because I live in a place with no one we know and my husband works lousy hours, so it's ALL on me. And despite that, I HAVE been putting a lot of effort into this dog.

None of this has anything to do with pride. Am I one of those dog owners that treats their dog like a child? No, and I'm proud of not being one of those dog owners. I don't care what people think of that, but that is NOT me.

Anxiety issues are one thing. AGGRESSION issues are another. We put up with the anxiety issues while trying to correct them. But aggression is something else altogether. If she exhibited these behaviors while in the rescue's care, I know she would not have been adopted.

And I'm not begrudging the dog sympathy at all. But when you say you feel sorry for the dog, and completely ignore the effect on the humans in the family, then that's pretty lousy.

[amazonvera]

You called two trainers and they didn't want to take your case. That's hardly "mission accomplished" and you know it.

Make up your mind, does your husband work crazy hours so neither of you're both strapped for time, or is he unemployed so that your hardships are so considerable?

Aggression is absolutely not "something else altogether" when it comes to dog anxiety, and the sheer ignorance of that statement tells me an awful lot about how much help and information you got to deal with this dog.

Surrender the dog to a qualified rescue. Tell them that while not aggressive when you got her, she became aggressive later and that you did not/could not take her to on-going training when her anxiety got worse. Tell them that you didn't have one-on-one time to give her because of your family situation and that you "had to" shut her up and she got even worse. In other words, tell them the truth so they can help her, not the convenient "this dog can't be helped" story that makes you feel better.

No one in your family is about to be put down because of anxiety issues that aren't their fault. This dog has none of the control over this situation or guarantee of staying alive and having a home afterward that you and your family do. The idea that I can only appropriately express best wishes to your dog if I give your inconveniences and hurt feelings equal time is bullshit.

[sblmnldrknss]

Sweet jesus, your reading comprehension sucks. Last spring through this past fall my husband was sick AND unemployed. He is now healthy AND employed AND works shit hours.

And yes, aggression IS something else altogether, and every rescue I've talked to and every dog trainer(four altogether, are you keeping count?) has said so. At the point that she was IN training, we were dealing with her nervous anxiety, not her possessive aggression.

She was aggressive within a month of getting her, so yes, she came to us that way. I'm not going to lie to a rescue because you think it's the nice thing to do. I have an ongoing relationship with the woman who runs the rescue here where we got the puppy. She is well aware of what has gone on with Ellie all along the way.

And again, I crated her THIS MORNING. Why are you making shit up?!

Annnnnd again, I never said she can't be "helped," but I said I can't trust her again.

[amazonvera]

You crated her this morning. I believe i clearly said that you'd crated her "most recently," Miss Champion Of Reading Comprehension. You're also describing all sorts of other issues she's had being confined in the house and yard the past. You know, when you were telling me why confining her hasn't worked when I hadn't said you should confine her and was actually telling you why that was not a good idea.

Now it's four trainers. So we've gone from you not getting help from a trainer because the two you called said no, to two training consultations, to four training consultations and past ongoing training.

And your husband that you said was "unemployed now" is suddenly not unemployed at all, and now instead of not possibly having been aggressive when you got her from the rescue, she came to you with aggression issues and rather than getting progressively worse over the past year, she hasn't been getting worse with you at all.

Stories that change every time the old version becomes inconvenient are called "bullshit." You couldn't help the dog. Fine. I find that very easy to believe. But this dog has enough challenges of her own, she doesn't need to take responsibility for your issues on top of it.

[sblmnldrknss]

Whatever. I know what I said, and my story hasn't changed. In Virginia, when my husband WAS unemployed, she saw two trainers. More recently, I have called two OTHER trainers, who said they were willing to do what they could, but they didn't think their methods would help these issues. Why is that so hard?

And I said we didn't KNOW she was aggressive when we got her, and she didn't immediately act that way, but she shortly did, when my friends took care of her overnight.

[amazonvera]

Yes, I know what you said, too. Hence the quotes. It's all here in black and white.

You didn't get her consistent professional help until the issue was resolved. You relocated. The person she's obsessively protective of was critically ill. You and your spouse don't have the ability to give her the time, exercise, and behavioral work she obviously needs. This has all pretty obviously contributed to her current condition.

Some of those things are no one's fault. Some are your fault. None are your dog's fault, but your dog is the one who will suffer the consequences if you don't start admitting to yourself and these rescues that she wasn't set up very well for success.

[sblmnldrknss]

And you can promise me these things weren't in play before we got her? That they're not the reason the dog was given up before we got her?

[amazonvera]

I'm sure they were "in play." That would be why she needed the help and attention that she didn't get, and probably had a lot to do with why she responded so badly to some of the life changes another dog might have dealt with better. That's often why dogs like this get bounced around until they're killed.

[sblmnldrknss]

Is that my fault? Why am I the bad one here? Supposedly she and the other three dogs she lived with were all dumped at a shelter because the wife was having a baby. Nothing more than that. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially because Ellie came to us knowing basic commands and tricks and things. But she's batshit. We just didn't know that on day one. And the rescue didn't, either.

[amazonvera]

The condition in which she comes to you is not your responsibility. What you do with her once you've taken her on is.

If you wanted a dog without a past, you shouldn't have gone to a rescue, or you should have gotten a puppy. Even then, pets don't come with guarantees of perfection. You adopted her. She needed help. You didn't/couldn't give it to her. That's not her fault.

If you're done with her, fine. But you need to be honest when you surrender her about the help she didn't get and the circumstances of your time with her that contributed to her problem. If you lie about, misrepresent, or withhold that information, her chances of getting help or finding a new home or just plain surviving are that much slimmer.

[sblmnldrknss]

I didn't lie. She's had professional training. Other trainers have said they'd work with her, but didn't think they had the resources to help. That's not a lie. She is exercised. Is she exercised ENOUGH? No way to know, but I also wouldn't trust that a dog that needs to be exhausted to be safe is a good dog to have. And certainly I realize a rescue dog doesn't come with guarantees. But the rescue we got her from has in their contract that their dogs are not known to be aggressive, but if they manifest aggression, they take them back.

As I said to someone else, I don't know that she IS rehomeable, not in my good conscience. I KNOW she can be aggressive. That's not up in the air.

[amazonvera]

And you should tell them that she's been aggressive to other dogs and issues of being over-protective of one of the owners. That's incredibly important for them to know. It's also important for them to know if training wasn't consistent, or if relocation or critical illness within the family were an issue, or if family needs and circumstances made the owners feel that one-on-one attention and lots of exercise weren't possible. I'm sorry if those things are hard for you to face, but it's not right to hurt the dog's chances by withholding or misrepresenting information after everything she's already been through.