(Please excuse the two-part response as I have exceeded the maximum length limit for a comment.)
I have mixed feelings about critiques. I crave them, but rarely get them. I give them, but am rarely thanked for it. I am not always nice about it, but it doesn't seem to matter - I can be horribly nasty and get a thank you in return, or I can be perfectly kind and receive a lengthy vitriolic response. So I have stopped trying to curb myself to niceness and have settled for blunt honesty on those few occasions when I bother to say anything at all. I don't bother with anonymity because there's nothing I have to say that I don't stand behind 100%, and if someone is too sensitive to read what I have to say, then either they'll realize they're not ready to share what they've written with the general public, or they'll develop a thicker skin.
Mistakes build character; an inability to face one's mistakes is usually a pretty good indication of a shallow, self-absorbed individual. Yet in fandom we are encouraged, if not expected, to politely ignore the mistakes, to deliberately overlook them, because it's 'rude' to point them out. If I mention in comments that the character's name is Ginevra, not Ginerva, then that automatically makes me an asshole. There's no onus on the author to take any responsibility at all.
I often feel that fandom can be a very shallow, self-absorbed society as a result of this mentality. I don't often have conversations with people within fandom. I read and enjoy their fics, and I leave comments or kudos, and I move on. I can't sit down and enjoy a discussion about the fic itself, because any such discussion would inevitably include critique, and critique is not permitted.
I am such a perfectionist about my writing that I can't fathom posting a fic that I haven't carefully proofread. If something slips past me, I'd like it pointed out immediately if not sooner so that I can fix it. As far as I'm concerned, grammar and spelling errors really suck the fun out of reading a fic. I want my reader to be fully immersed in and enjoy the world I've spent so much time creating (or in the case of fanfic, expanding on).
And as a reader, I feel disrespected when the author clearly doesn't give a damn about those little details.
How hard is it to check the HP Lexicon to confirm the spelling of a name? And why do I receive so much hate when I point out the error? Why are you writing if you don't care about the quality of your writing? Do you not love the words & imagery enough to take care with them? Do you not love yourself enough to take pride in your efforts?
Good writing is seductive. If it's described well, I can make you feel the playful gust of wind tugging at the ends of your hair, or taste the richness of chocolate in your mouth, or feel the press of warm chapped lips against your own. I can make you feel sorrow and grief, or joy and pleasure. I can help you escape the everyday world you live in and transport you to a completely different place - and I can make that place feel real to you, as if it's only a few short steps away, just follow the second star on the right and head straight on 'til morning. That is heady stuff right there. That's powerful. That's magic. When it works. (It doesn't always.)
If all you want to do, though, is spew out the current idea in your head as fast as possible so that you can move on to the next one, then I'm not really sure why you'd bother doing so in such a public manner. (And I don't mean you specifically, but 'you' in the general sense.) It's rather like having a wank. A fast, efficient, unsexy wank, taking the fastest route to orgasm with absolutely no finesse. And it's all out in the open for everyone to see.
Sure, it's free - but that doesn't make me want it.
As far as the venomous anon-hate comments - I have received surprisingly few. Which I find surprising, given the kinks I prefer to write about. The first time I posted one of my fics I fully expected the anon haters to regard it as an invitation to gleefully have at me, but that was not the case.
I've received a few entitled remarks. There's sortof a fine line... I think sometimes people make remarks intended as thoughtful critique, but they word it badly and it gets perceived as asshattery. I try to look at the language. If someone says, "That's boring, I've seen it a million times, I think Draco should have done this instead" then that's just plain trolling. That person obviously wants me to feel bad about myself and my writing, and I'm not going to engage in conversation with them.
I would welcome constructive critique, though. I'd love it if someone asked me why Harry did this or Draco did that, and let me know whether they thought it made sense within the context of the story. That's the only way I can improve my writing, is through feedback. And the only way I can get any payoff for the things I write for free is in the number of kudos and comments I receive - and the only way to get more of those is to improve my writing. Besides, without regular feedback, I start to feel stagnant after a while - and then I don't want to write at all. And since I don't have a regular beta, the only feedback I get is from comments. So really, I would LOVE it if someone took the time to leave me constructive criticism. PLEASE DO. NO, REALLY. I'M TALKING TO YOU, FANDOM.
Ahem. I mean. Yeah. Constructive criticism. I leave it. I welcome it. I'm all for more of it.
I think you see each fic as a seven course meal at a 5 star Michelin rated restaurant in Paris. Some people will never be able to create that. Ever. Not with all the writing classes and all the concrit in the world. My fics are a lot more like a meal where you are in and out within an hour. Should I not take pride in the fact that someone went away satisfied even if it wasn't the greatest meal they were ever served?
I mean I think it's great to have high standards for yourself and to be choosy what you read but to suggest that other authors basically ought to be ashamed of themselves for not being dressed for a night on the town or attending the Oscars when all they want is a bowl of ice cream and Netflix is rather pretentious.
I once got blasted because I suggested to someone that their fic might be easier to read if there was a space between each paragraph. That's not precisely high standards.
I would not call my fics a seven-course meal at a fancy restaurant. Hell, mine don't even qualify as a McD's cheeseburger. But I do aspire to be better each time. I want to write, but I also want to write well. I don't find complacency to be an admirable trait in any situation. Not giving a damn is the thing to be ashamed of, in my own personal opinion. I do this because I enjoy it, and because I enjoy it, I care about it.
I don't think you're sitting back churning out fics according to any formula, either. You may not sit down and think to yourself, "I'm going to make this fic better than my last, I'm going to make this the best fic ever!!1!" But I do believe that you sit down every time and write the best fic that you know how. Because you care too. And it comes through in the writing.
But there are people who really absolutely don't care, who have said specifically, "I don't want to hear what mistakes I've made, so don't even bother telling me, just take it and be grateful I even bothered posting it." And that attitude boggles my mind.
Well, that's very kind of you to say. I mean I was never a perfectionist and I likely never will be. Good enough is basically all I strive for but I agree that spelling names wrong and not spacing, that stuff is fairly ridiculous and easy to fix.
TBH I'm exactly that kind of "writer"-I don't mean to offer up garbage, but I'm not a good writer by any means. And I am really not here for the writing but for the porn-mostly, so to me it's not about polishing a fic until I deem it nobel prize worthy. I simply don't like the mainstream porn that is out there for women so I create my own.
Like a lot of writers English isn't my first language. It's actually my third, after German, my mother tongue and Japanese, the language of my parents. A lot of writers are American I think, but not all-I know a lot of writers come from Asia, finding their way into fandom (at least I assume so) through mangas and animes.
Some writers are barely legal and some are sixty. Some haven't even read Harry Potter in English but in Japanese, Chinese or French. It's not a completely waterproof excuse but some of the names are different in every language. I believe Snape for example has a different name in Italian and French and in Japanese. If you read HP in Japanese all English names are spelled in Katakana, and translated from katakana again, it would read something like "Ha-ri Po-te-ru" or "Se-be-ru-su Su-ne-pu". I'd be glad if someone told me niely, so I can correct misspelled names. I know I'm always thankful when someone points out stuff to me, like when I mistakenly typed "cog instead of "cock". Awkward.
Of course writers should be more careful when writing in a second language, and they could have checked the internet, but still-to get the spelling of names right isn't as straight forward as one might think so a lot about this critique is slightly us-centric. A lot of people simply assume to write fanfic you have to speak perfect English. Or even that learning English is easy.
My education in English was limited to two hours a week so ...
I mostly work without betas because betas are hard to find. The few betas I do manage to find at occasion often need to be cajoled and begged and pleaded with to return beta'ed work. And more often than not, they stop responding. I don't begrudge them tbh-beta'ing is hard work, it's less satisfying than writing itself, beta'ing long fics can be a horror, esp when you realise you don't like the fic. RL can be a bitch too, so having a fic beta'ed is really a bit of a luxury. If one writes abt mainstream pairings for say, Draco/Harry, they'll get more beta-offers. I don't unfortunately know not many who are willing to beta a say Tobias Snape/Severus Snape fic or bestiality fics.
I write very specific kinks, my sentence structure is weird, I use the dictionary when writing, and with very long fics the writing does tend to get messy. I'm up to chapter 20 with one of my longest fics I've ever written and this one has eaten up more than 5 betas. I couldn't ask of any beta to stick with me through this so some chapters go up unbeta'ed.
Pointing out that spaces between paragraphs is pretty much needed to enjoy a fic, the correct spelling of Zabini or that "waste" should be "waist" isn't even critique in my eyes. (I know definitions vary from individual to individual) but I'll pretty much do the same especially if a fic is good. So to clarify this is not what I label anon hate.
I had one person pointing out why a certain plot twist in my Snarry wouldn't really work well. It was thoughtful and well worded-the commenter didn't mince words, but was honest-the plot twist basically distracted from the actual plot, the slow build of a relationship, and that critique was really helpful in many ways without being disrespectful.
Comments lamenting the fact you wrote a Snape bottom instead of Harry (ALTHOUGH THE FIC IS TAGGED AS A BOTTOM!SNAPE FIC) ... and even "can u write one next time where Harry bottoms because I just can't stomach Snape bottoming?" aren't exactly hateful but ... not desired nonetheless. I also don't see much room for improvement with comments like "I hope you suffer everything you put poor Tom [Hiddleston] through then u know real pain".
Comments firmly demanding you write a top!Draco because "everyone writes bottom!Draco and it gets so boring" or "WOW THAT SUCKED!" aren't exactly helpful. Pointing out the OOC-ness of a character-weirdly something that never happened to me, although I frequently even tag fics as "OOC" is also another point, where I assume the commenter must be very sure of themselves and their view of their character. Asians see Harry Potter differently than British readers, and I am pretty sure Russian readers have a different idea of Snape than many Americans. So if one points out the OOC-ness of a character they should bear that in mind. Fanfic is after all, about re-interpretation and more often than not about paths not taken.
Also, definitions of "helpful" or "constructive" might differ. I knew writers who are disabled and or sick and when struggling with disability it's not as easy to check continuity/spelling errors. Taking these people to task is a bit more challenging because you never know what means they have to improve their fics. Critique some people may find helpful might come across as trolling to others. It's not your definition of what is trolling and what isn't, that is valid alone-again you have to take cultural differences into account.
I have to admit, I try my best to be gracious about criticism but I hate it. In all honesty I hate it. I work very hard on my writing but I am dyslexic and must pore over every word to catch homophones and the like. Commas make my eyes cross. By the time I get a fic finished I have usually proof-read until I am sick of the story and just want it off my computer, and then I still usually have it proof-read multiple times by fresh eyes before I ask someone else to post it for me. That's how difficult this is for me, I have never been able to successfully format a story on my own.
When someone reads 30 or 40 pages of short story or chapter I WROTE FOR FREE only to fixate on a misplaced comma or homophone I grit my teeth and suppress my desire to be rude. I know people say they are trying to help but to me it feels like what they really have is a desire to feel superior and they meet that need by finding some superficial flaw to comment on.
The few times I have had someone take issue with something substantive it's always been more reflective of world view than anything else and while I think they're wrong I figure other people can have whatever world view they like. We're all entitled to be wrong sometimes, but commenting on a single word out of thousands gets straight up my nose.
I don't mind constructive criticism-i mean, people telling me about typos that might distract from the story, but I did get comments intended to be hurtful which didn't even contain suggestions for improvement-and I immediately could not help but see the giggly, mean girls in my mind who used to bully me in school for being short and for wearing old, unfashionable clothes.
I remember reading and liking your stories very much! They're lovely and rich and unique! I count myself lucky having been initiated into fandom by writers like you!
I have mixed feelings about critiques. I crave them, but rarely get them. I give them, but am rarely thanked for it. I am not always nice about it, but it doesn't seem to matter - I can be horribly nasty and get a thank you in return, or I can be perfectly kind and receive a lengthy vitriolic response. So I have stopped trying to curb myself to niceness and have settled for blunt honesty on those few occasions when I bother to say anything at all. I don't bother with anonymity because there's nothing I have to say that I don't stand behind 100%, and if someone is too sensitive to read what I have to say, then either they'll realize they're not ready to share what they've written with the general public, or they'll develop a thicker skin.
Mistakes build character; an inability to face one's mistakes is usually a pretty good indication of a shallow, self-absorbed individual. Yet in fandom we are encouraged, if not expected, to politely ignore the mistakes, to deliberately overlook them, because it's 'rude' to point them out. If I mention in comments that the character's name is Ginevra, not Ginerva, then that automatically makes me an asshole. There's no onus on the author to take any responsibility at all.
I often feel that fandom can be a very shallow, self-absorbed society as a result of this mentality. I don't often have conversations with people within fandom. I read and enjoy their fics, and I leave comments or kudos, and I move on. I can't sit down and enjoy a discussion about the fic itself, because any such discussion would inevitably include critique, and critique is not permitted.
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And as a reader, I feel disrespected when the author clearly doesn't give a damn about those little details.
How hard is it to check the HP Lexicon to confirm the spelling of a name? And why do I receive so much hate when I point out the error? Why are you writing if you don't care about the quality of your writing? Do you not love the words & imagery enough to take care with them? Do you not love yourself enough to take pride in your efforts?
Good writing is seductive. If it's described well, I can make you feel the playful gust of wind tugging at the ends of your hair, or taste the richness of chocolate in your mouth, or feel the press of warm chapped lips against your own. I can make you feel sorrow and grief, or joy and pleasure. I can help you escape the everyday world you live in and transport you to a completely different place - and I can make that place feel real to you, as if it's only a few short steps away, just follow the second star on the right and head straight on 'til morning. That is heady stuff right there. That's powerful. That's magic. When it works. (It doesn't always.)
If all you want to do, though, is spew out the current idea in your head as fast as possible so that you can move on to the next one, then I'm not really sure why you'd bother doing so in such a public manner. (And I don't mean you specifically, but 'you' in the general sense.) It's rather like having a wank. A fast, efficient, unsexy wank, taking the fastest route to orgasm with absolutely no finesse. And it's all out in the open for everyone to see.
Sure, it's free - but that doesn't make me want it.
As far as the venomous anon-hate comments - I have received surprisingly few. Which I find surprising, given the kinks I prefer to write about. The first time I posted one of my fics I fully expected the anon haters to regard it as an invitation to gleefully have at me, but that was not the case.
I've received a few entitled remarks. There's sortof a fine line... I think sometimes people make remarks intended as thoughtful critique, but they word it badly and it gets perceived as asshattery. I try to look at the language. If someone says, "That's boring, I've seen it a million times, I think Draco should have done this instead" then that's just plain trolling. That person obviously wants me to feel bad about myself and my writing, and I'm not going to engage in conversation with them.
I would welcome constructive critique, though. I'd love it if someone asked me why Harry did this or Draco did that, and let me know whether they thought it made sense within the context of the story. That's the only way I can improve my writing, is through feedback. And the only way I can get any payoff for the things I write for free is in the number of kudos and comments I receive - and the only way to get more of those is to improve my writing. Besides, without regular feedback, I start to feel stagnant after a while - and then I don't want to write at all. And since I don't have a regular beta, the only feedback I get is from comments. So really, I would LOVE it if someone took the time to leave me constructive criticism. PLEASE DO. NO, REALLY. I'M TALKING TO YOU, FANDOM.
Ahem. I mean. Yeah. Constructive criticism. I leave it. I welcome it. I'm all for more of it.
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I mean I think it's great to have high standards for yourself and to be choosy what you read but to suggest that other authors basically ought to be ashamed of themselves for not being dressed for a night on the town or attending the Oscars when all they want is a bowl of ice cream and Netflix is rather pretentious.
Reply
I would not call my fics a seven-course meal at a fancy restaurant. Hell, mine don't even qualify as a McD's cheeseburger. But I do aspire to be better each time. I want to write, but I also want to write well. I don't find complacency to be an admirable trait in any situation. Not giving a damn is the thing to be ashamed of, in my own personal opinion. I do this because I enjoy it, and because I enjoy it, I care about it.
I don't think you're sitting back churning out fics according to any formula, either. You may not sit down and think to yourself, "I'm going to make this fic better than my last, I'm going to make this the best fic ever!!1!" But I do believe that you sit down every time and write the best fic that you know how. Because you care too. And it comes through in the writing.
But there are people who really absolutely don't care, who have said specifically, "I don't want to hear what mistakes I've made, so don't even bother telling me, just take it and be grateful I even bothered posting it." And that attitude boggles my mind.
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Like a lot of writers English isn't my first language. It's actually my third, after German, my mother tongue and Japanese, the language of my parents. A lot of writers are American I think, but not all-I know a lot of writers come from Asia, finding their way into fandom (at least I assume so) through mangas and animes.
Some writers are barely legal and some are sixty. Some haven't even read Harry Potter in English but in Japanese, Chinese or French. It's not a completely waterproof excuse but some of the names are different in every language. I believe Snape for example has a different name in Italian and French and in Japanese. If you read HP in Japanese all English names are spelled in Katakana, and translated from katakana again, it would read something like "Ha-ri Po-te-ru" or "Se-be-ru-su Su-ne-pu". I'd be glad if someone told me niely, so I can correct misspelled names. I know I'm always thankful when someone points out stuff to me, like when I mistakenly typed "cog instead of "cock". Awkward.
Of course writers should be more careful when writing in a second language, and they could have checked the internet, but still-to get the spelling of names right isn't as straight forward as one might think so a lot about this critique is slightly us-centric. A lot of people simply assume to write fanfic you have to speak perfect English. Or even that learning English is easy.
My education in English was limited to two hours a week so ...
I mostly work without betas because betas are hard to find. The few betas I do manage to find at occasion often need to be cajoled and begged and pleaded with to return beta'ed work. And more often than not, they stop responding. I don't begrudge them tbh-beta'ing is hard work, it's less satisfying than writing itself, beta'ing long fics can be a horror, esp when you realise you don't like the fic. RL can be a bitch too, so having a fic beta'ed is really a bit of a luxury. If one writes abt mainstream pairings for say, Draco/Harry, they'll get more beta-offers. I don't unfortunately know not many who are willing to beta a say Tobias Snape/Severus Snape fic or bestiality fics.
I write very specific kinks, my sentence structure is weird, I use the dictionary when writing, and with very long fics the writing does tend to get messy. I'm up to chapter 20 with one of my longest fics I've ever written and this one has eaten up more than 5 betas. I couldn't ask of any beta to stick with me through this so some chapters go up unbeta'ed.
Reply
Pointing out that spaces between paragraphs is pretty much needed to enjoy a fic, the correct spelling of Zabini or that "waste" should be "waist" isn't even critique in my eyes. (I know definitions vary from individual to individual) but I'll pretty much do the same especially if a fic is good. So to clarify this is not what I label anon hate.
I had one person pointing out why a certain plot twist in my Snarry wouldn't really work well. It was thoughtful and well worded-the commenter didn't mince words, but was honest-the plot twist basically distracted from the actual plot, the slow build of a relationship, and that critique was really helpful in many ways without being disrespectful.
Comments lamenting the fact you wrote a Snape bottom instead of Harry (ALTHOUGH THE FIC IS TAGGED AS A BOTTOM!SNAPE FIC) ... and even "can u write one next time where Harry bottoms because I just can't stomach Snape bottoming?" aren't exactly hateful but ... not desired nonetheless. I also don't see much room for improvement with comments like "I hope you suffer everything you put poor Tom [Hiddleston] through then u know real pain".
Comments firmly demanding you write a top!Draco because "everyone writes bottom!Draco and it gets so boring" or "WOW THAT SUCKED!" aren't exactly helpful. Pointing out the OOC-ness of a character-weirdly something that never happened to me, although I frequently even tag fics as "OOC" is also another point, where I assume the commenter must be very sure of themselves and their view of their character. Asians see Harry Potter differently than British readers, and I am pretty sure Russian readers have a different idea of Snape than many Americans. So if one points out the OOC-ness of a character they should bear that in mind. Fanfic is after all, about re-interpretation and more often than not about paths not taken.
Also, definitions of "helpful" or "constructive" might differ. I knew writers who are disabled and or sick and when struggling with disability it's not as easy to check continuity/spelling errors. Taking these people to task is a bit more challenging because you never know what means they have to improve their fics. Critique some people may find helpful might come across as trolling to others. It's not your definition of what is trolling and what isn't, that is valid alone-again you have to take cultural differences into account.
Reply
When someone reads 30 or 40 pages of short story or chapter I WROTE FOR FREE only to fixate on a misplaced comma or homophone I grit my teeth and suppress my desire to be rude. I know people say they are trying to help but to me it feels like what they really have is a desire to feel superior and they meet that need by finding some superficial flaw to comment on.
The few times I have had someone take issue with something substantive it's always been more reflective of world view than anything else and while I think they're wrong I figure other people can have whatever world view they like. We're all entitled to be wrong sometimes, but commenting on a single word out of thousands gets straight up my nose.
Reply
I remember reading and liking your stories very much! They're lovely and rich and unique! I count myself lucky having been initiated into fandom by writers like you!
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