Obviously one needs to be a better writer than I am, but I do try to write actively against notions of hetero-normativity in my fics.
I have a certain ideas of what is feminine and what is masculine, I have a certain idea of power balance, and most of these ideas are not born in a vacuum but fostered by society. So even though I try, I do realise certain cliches sneak in.
Saying that, I've read very few fics where topping/bottoming has no connotation at all. A lot, if not most bottom!Harry fics do feminise Harry, some more subtle than others.
In my case one major aspect is who I find attractive. So, in HP fandom, I mostly find Snape attractive. Everyone else is (sexually) irrelevant to me. I like to write Snarries sure, but I don't really care much for Harry outside his roles as love interest for Snape. And so I sexually objectify Snape-not Harry.
Same with Thorinduil and Hannigram. To me Will Graham and Thranduil are sexually attractive, while I care less for Hannibal or Thorin.
The idea with tagging is though that you don't want to scare off a majority of potential readers/want to lead them to your fic. IDK if I were to be squicked by umbrellas that wouldn't really justify a tag because I'd be pretty much the only person squicked by an umbrella.
Same with that whole bottoming thing-I'm pretty sure that only the tiniest fraction of readers, probably less than 1% only search for "Bottom!Character X" tags (like I do)-so in the whole it's not really an important squick like i. e. scat, character death, etc.,
Saying that, I've read very few fics where topping/bottoming has no connotation at all. A lot, if not most bottom!Harry fics do feminise Harry, some more subtle than others.
I agree with you, actually. And I hate it. I probably still do it, though hopefully more subtly most of the time. Why do people have so much trouble writing two men as men? IDK but it's something I am trying to work on myself.
Saying that, I've read very few fics where topping/bottoming has no connotation at all.
I agree with this and I'm sure it's not in small part due to the fact that the vast majority of slash writers are women and we're drawing on our own experiences and the way male/female relationships are presented to us in the world. The receptive partner is by definition weaker, more emotional, usually younger, and in need of being conquered/taken care of in that world view so it's understandable that this view of what being the one penetrated "means" will be present in the way many women write the bottom in fic.
Hell, even the word penetrate carries a connotation of power. No one thinks of a vagina engulfing a penis, after all.
So, while I really don't like the idea that bottoming=feminine/submissive, I understand why it's often presented that way but damn, I wish there was a whole lot less of it. :/
The idea with tagging is though that you don't want to scare off a majority of potential readers/want to lead them to your fic.
A thought on this. One reason that I would hesitate to tag fic in this manner is because there's a part of me that would like someone who's generally not a fan of X bottoming (and without fail, the only time I've gotten comments wrt to who's on the bottom is someone mentioning that they don't usually like bottom!Snape.) to give something I did a shot and see if maybe they would like the way I did it. I know that might sound like I think highly of my own stuff (I honestly don't, I'm a good pencil slinger but not the best by any means, I know.), but in the past, I have had people tell me the like the way I write the M/M relationship I do and enjoy bottom!Snape in my work even if they avoid it elsewhere.
But obviously, those are people who aren't squicked by it, just have a top/bottom set up they prefer.
Maybe that's a horrible reason, but I admit, it's something that would bother me if someone passed on a story solely because of who's topping without giving a chance to see how the story presented it.
One reason that I would hesitate to tag fic in this manner is because there's a part of me that would like someone who's generally not a fan of X bottoming (and without fail, the only time I've gotten comments wrt to who's on the bottom is someone mentioning that they don't usually like bottom!Snape.) to give something I did a shot and see if maybe they would like the way I did it.
I encountered a few fics tagged or even recced to me as bottom!snape no doubt by well meaning people who were thinking 'oh I know she said she doesn't like Bottom!Harry but she'll like this one' ... and I had to find out the painful way that in fact they weren't which was pretty gross.
I understand the temptation: quite a lot of people tag fics in order to divert traffic to their work. Also most people think because they like something others will like it too-it's a very human notion.
I can't say how successful that strategy is because as I said before in my case it rather backfired spectacularly. Maybe in art it works better because you rarely read through pages and pages of words only to realise in the end that the only sex in that fic is bottom!Harry.
Well, it's not so much my thinking that because I like something, someone else will too, but rather as I said up thread, the topping/bottoming arrangement doesn't really carry any sort of connotation in my work. In a 50+ page comic, if there's more than one sex scene, both will be on the bottom at some point. I really don't want any one approaching my work thinking "oh X bottoms? No thanks, I don't like when he's a bottom because of whatever(the characterization often given to bottoms/he often feminine as a bottom/insert baggage that comes with being a bottom here."
I just think that tagging sexual position can come across as saying something about the role the receptive person plays in the story and that's not generally part of how I write.
Maybe it's a pairing difference? I dunno, like I said, I've only gotten "I don't usually like bottom!Snape, but I liked this!" (no one has ever made any comment one way or the other about Sirius on the bottom.)
I have a certain ideas of what is feminine and what is masculine, I have a certain idea of power balance, and most of these ideas are not born in a vacuum but fostered by society. So even though I try, I do realise certain cliches sneak in.
Saying that, I've read very few fics where topping/bottoming has no connotation at all. A lot, if not most bottom!Harry fics do feminise Harry, some more subtle than others.
In my case one major aspect is who I find attractive. So, in HP fandom, I mostly find Snape attractive. Everyone else is (sexually) irrelevant to me. I like to write Snarries sure, but I don't really care much for Harry outside his roles as love interest for Snape. And so I sexually objectify Snape-not Harry.
Same with Thorinduil and Hannigram. To me Will Graham and Thranduil are sexually attractive, while I care less for Hannibal or Thorin.
The idea with tagging is though that you don't want to scare off a majority of potential readers/want to lead them to your fic. IDK if I were to be squicked by umbrellas that wouldn't really justify a tag because I'd be pretty much the only person squicked by an umbrella.
Same with that whole bottoming thing-I'm pretty sure that only the tiniest fraction of readers, probably less than 1% only search for "Bottom!Character X" tags (like I do)-so in the whole it's not really an important squick like i. e. scat, character death, etc.,
Reply
I agree with you, actually. And I hate it. I probably still do it, though hopefully more subtly most of the time. Why do people have so much trouble writing two men as men? IDK but it's something I am trying to work on myself.
Reply
I agree with this and I'm sure it's not in small part due to the fact that the vast majority of slash writers are women and we're drawing on our own experiences and the way male/female relationships are presented to us in the world. The receptive partner is by definition weaker, more emotional, usually younger, and in need of being conquered/taken care of in that world view so it's understandable that this view of what being the one penetrated "means" will be present in the way many women write the bottom in fic.
Hell, even the word penetrate carries a connotation of power. No one thinks of a vagina engulfing a penis, after all.
So, while I really don't like the idea that bottoming=feminine/submissive, I understand why it's often presented that way but damn, I wish there was a whole lot less of it. :/
The idea with tagging is though that you don't want to scare off a majority of potential readers/want to lead them to your fic.
A thought on this. One reason that I would hesitate to tag fic in this manner is because there's a part of me that would like someone who's generally not a fan of X bottoming (and without fail, the only time I've gotten comments wrt to who's on the bottom is someone mentioning that they don't usually like bottom!Snape.) to give something I did a shot and see if maybe they would like the way I did it. I know that might sound like I think highly of my own stuff (I honestly don't, I'm a good pencil slinger but not the best by any means, I know.), but in the past, I have had people tell me the like the way I write the M/M relationship I do and enjoy bottom!Snape in my work even if they avoid it elsewhere.
But obviously, those are people who aren't squicked by it, just have a top/bottom set up they prefer.
Maybe that's a horrible reason, but I admit, it's something that would bother me if someone passed on a story solely because of who's topping without giving a chance to see how the story presented it.
Reply
I encountered a few fics tagged or even recced to me as bottom!snape no doubt by well meaning people who were thinking 'oh I know she said she doesn't like Bottom!Harry but she'll like this one' ... and I had to find out the painful way that in fact they weren't which was pretty gross.
I understand the temptation: quite a lot of people tag fics in order to divert traffic to their work. Also most people think because they like something others will like it too-it's a very human notion.
I can't say how successful that strategy is because as I said before in my case it rather backfired spectacularly. Maybe in art it works better because you rarely read through pages and pages of words only to realise in the end that the only sex in that fic is bottom!Harry.
Reply
I just think that tagging sexual position can come across as saying something about the role the receptive person plays in the story and that's not generally part of how I write.
Maybe it's a pairing difference? I dunno, like I said, I've only gotten "I don't usually like bottom!Snape, but I liked this!" (no one has ever made any comment one way or the other about Sirius on the bottom.)
Reply
Leave a comment