Kilgour, Defrantz and Olympic boycotts

[mijopo]

There was a great discussion yesterday on NPR between David Kilgour, former MP and human rights lawyer, and Anita DeFrantz, American IOC member.  Kilgour was there to voice his support for a limited opening ceremonies boycott but ended up speaking out very strongly against Chinese human rights abuses, and China's role in Tibet and Darfur, and the

Comments

[zastrazzi]

The one argument I keep hearing repeatedly is that the athletes shouldn't be punished.

Since when are the rights of a few athletes more important than applying any and all pressure to stop gross human rights abuses? We should somehow turn a blind eye to torture and executions so someone can prove they run faster than someone else by a few milliseconds?

In terms of priority and importance, these aren't even in the same ballpark.

[thanks4thefish]

Right, but if boycotting the Olympics is taking the place of serious action like trade sanctions or, you know, the government actually taking a stand on this issue, then yes, the athletes unfairly pay the price so the government doesn't actually have to do anything.

[zastrazzi]

That pre-supposes that boycotting the Olympics isn't a serious action and has no consequence for the Chinese. Additionally, an Olympic boycott is definitely a stand by whichever government does it, as virtually any team heading there is financially supported in some way or another by it's home country.

Frankly, boycotting the Olympics is an *excellent* way for a country to take a stand on the issue, as it's intensely public. Sanctions are effective as well, but aren't much of a 'public' statement. I think a lot more Canadians would be vocal about Chinese abuses through an Olympic boycott than something as dry and distant as sanctions.

[allhatnocattle]

I don't give a crap about "punishing" athletes in this manner. They always have competitions. If not the Olympics it's the Pan-American Games, The Commonwealth Games, etc. When the NHL was on stike, er, locked out, the players made due.

The players should be proud that their country took a political stand at their expense, rather then saddened that they lost a opportunity at winning a medal.

[thanks4thefish]

Wow, that's a really poor comparison. The average NHL player salary is over $1 Million. Olympic athletes are amateurs. They have to train several hours a day for yeas to qualify for the Olympics while holding down the same jobs you and I hold down to pay the bills. The elite amongst these athletes (meaning a few dozen) get a subsidy of $1,100/month. The best chance for any kind of financial break for amateurs comes from endorsement and sponsorships which still don't even begin to compare with the endorsements star NHL players get. Oh, and to get those endorsements, they need to win medals in high profile competitions, like the Olympics.

See my comment below for my view of why a boycott is a totally empty gesture.

[allhatnocattle]

I don't care. Get a real job. Athletes are really just entertainers put on a pedestal. Sure they have to work hard at their craft. Sure they have to make sacrifices. So? Anyone else with ambition and goals does the exact same thing. The best accountant works hard, perfects his craft, rises through ranks and gets that plumb job at a Fortune 500 company. Unfortunately sometimes a Fortune 500 goes under. That's life. Bad timing. Bad luck. Whatever.

Who really looses out are we the viewers who enjoy sport. Personally I enjoy winter Olympics far better then the summer ones, but that's me.

[thanks4thefish]

Are you dense? They have real jobs. It's right there in my post where I say they have to hold down regular jobs while training.

[allhatnocattle]

So what? Take them off that pedestal just because they have a hobby that absorbs several hours a day, involves personal sacrifice, etc. and makes you proud. What's your point? Many folks are totally into their hobbies as well as keeping full time jobs. Custom car guys will put several hours a day in to their ride before the local show'n'shine. Toy train guys will do the same. Some folks write novels. Some work for Greenpeace. Athletes will do what they do no matter if there is an Olympics or not. Somehow you think their pursuits are somehow better? Why? Because a medal is proof of their supremacy in their endeavors?

[thanks4thefish]

If you want to send a message on principle, I would think that part of the point is to take a measure of pain to prove a point, to say, 'we will make this sacrifice because we believe this is right'. Who is sacrificing here? An Olympic boycott doesn't hurt the economy, it doesn't hurt Canada's foreign relations, it doesn't hurt Canada's consumers who enjoy low prices because of Chinese manufacturing. The only people who are sacrificing , who are suffering to prove this point are the athletes. And if, as you say (incorrectly) that what the athletes do doesn't matter, then really we're not sacrificing much of anything. How is that standing on principle? You're defeating your own argument to say in one breath that a few athletes don't matter, and then in the next breath that boycotting the Olympics somehow then equates to taking a stand

[allhatnocattle]

The point is to take a stand in order to embarrass Chinese officials into taking corrective measures. No matter how the Chinese respond, it effectively communicates the point to 30 million Canadians. Yes, indeed, it is the least amount of action/sacrifice to make, but it makes the loudest point in doing the least. Kinda like driving a hybrid SUV.

[thanks4thefish]

Yes, because history shows us that whenever the Chinese government is embarrassed, they inevitably respond by showing humility and contrition.

[allhatnocattle]

Are you dense? No matter how the Chinese respond, with action or inaction, it effectively communicates the point to 30million CanadiansThe similarity to driving a hybrid SUV is incredibly appropriate. The point of driving any hyrid is to help save the environment with less emissions, etc. But we know that the reality is pollution levels remain high and is offset negatively by every dirty emitter around he world. A hybrid SUV isn't much of sacrifice at all. But it effectively communicates that the hybrid driver is somewhat aware, somewhat concerned, and willing to help

[zastrazzi]

And if, as you say (incorrectly) that what the athletes do doesn't matter, then really we're not sacrificing much of anything. How is that standing on principle? You're defeating your own argument to say in one breath that a few athletes don't matter, and then in the next breath that boycotting the Olympics somehow then equates to taking a stand.
I didn't say what the athletes do doesn't matter. I said that affecting a few athletes isn't even on the same scale as the human rights abuses suffered by people in China. If you're arguing that dashing athletes dreams of winning a gold is on the same level as someone imprisoned, tortured and then killed for their organs... then we'll have to agree to disagree

[thanks4thefish]

I don't think they are on the same level (athletic competition and human rights violations) by any means. I was just making the point that to say you're asking a very small group of people to make a sacrifice so the larger Canadian populace and the Canadian government doesn't have to.

[zastrazzi]

In the grand scheme of things, I think a lot of Canadians would be more than a bit disappointed if we missed the Olympics. I'm fighting my cynicism as much as I can, and would be at least hopeful that a rather noisy boycotting of the games, and why, would encourage a lot more Canadians to rethink what buying choices to make.

While my own individual purchasing choices has negligible impact, it combined with others has more of an impact. The more people who are aware of the problem and what they can personally do about, the better.

Is the sacrifice significant? Depends on who you are I guess. I can afford to spend a few extra bucks here and there to buy something NOT made there, and I'm willing to spend a couple of seconds checking to see where the product was made.

It's not wholly about the Olympics in my case. I also object to buying things from countries that are environmentally irresponsible, and prefer to reduce my risk for lead ;)