Shootings and murder is up.

[allhatnocattle]

Toronto has a population of 2.5million and a metro population of 5.2 million. With a population at just over 550,000, Washington DC homicides peaked in 1991 at 482. That's just to put things in a little bit of perspective while considering the Toronto's crime wave of shooting and other homicides. It's still a pretty safe city, however the

Comments

[velvetpage]

I see two sources of these gangs. The first is racial discrimination and the ghettoization of minorities. We don't have that to the same extent that the U.S. does, but it does happen. The Jane/Finch area, as I understand it, is not just black; it's specifically a high ratio of immigrants from the Carribbean. Gang violence in Hamilton tends to centre around Asian kids. All of this is exacerbated by the fact that so many new-immigrant families live in poverty, crammed into high-rise apartments or subsidized townhouse complexes. Increase the number of bored, undereducated, hopeless kids in an area, and you'll increase the gang violence, too.

Which leads to the second cause - education. There are plenty of immigrants from all nations who come here and make good lives for themselves - more often the second generation than the first, but still, they manage it. Those kids don't end up in gangs. The big reason seems to be a push towards the best possible education. Now, this is not a cure-all; some of those white gangs in Mississauga probably broke up when their leaders went off to university. But statistically speaking, the crime rate drops with every additional year of education that someone has.

The ghettoization can be addressed slowly by making a conscious effort not to build large blocks of low-rent housing all in one spot. When you have ten high-rises in a two-block radius, you're going to get trouble out of sheer density of population. This is true in Hamilton too; the worst gang violence we've seen has been in a suburban neighbourhood built in the sixties, with about five high-rises and a whole rack of subsidized townhomes all within a few blocks. Increase the distance between the high-rises, limit the number of subsidized townhomes in a neighbourhood, so that the ratio of owner-inhabited homes to rental units is three or four to one. Lack of density will serve to gentrify a little bit, without making the rental housing too expensive - especially if it's subsidized. At the school level, this has the added advantage of mixing kids who've had some advantages as little kids with kids who've had none, or fewer. You take the pressure off the school system as well - high-needs kids are disproportionately likely to come from disadvantaged families. That means the high-needs kids have a better chance of getting the help they need in their school, simply because there are fewer of them.

[rogula]

How do the Asian Gangs in Vancouver fit in the the ghettoization theory? The Asian gangs here seam to stem from generally middle class (of not upper-middle to downrigh rich). In the Indian community they have a huge problem with gang violence and most of the members seam to come from very well of families.

I like your idea about spreading out the subsidized housing and mixing economic classes. It might be hard though (in vancouver) to stick a subsidized houseing unit in Shaughnesy or the British Properties. But I suppose you dont need to, as long as it's evenly spaced thought an area.

[binro33]

Mixed economic neighbourhoods is a good idea.
Unfortunately, our population density is going to go up not go down, and we have to plan for that in a way in which folks won't feel ghetto-ised.

[velvetpage]

The gang violence in Toronto, and in Hamilton, stems largely from the ghettoization I mentioned. Middle-class or rich-kid gangs are a different story; they stem from too much freedom and not enough empathy for those around them. As such, they're harder to combat. However, those gangs don't appear to be shooting people at random in the streets - unless, of course, I'm just not hearing about it because I live a long way away from it.

[rogula]

Last month we had a shooting in a restraunt in Vancouver in mid day. It was targeted at two individuals. We have drive by shootings almost weekly it seams (and alot of times they get the wrong house).

Most of these are related to the drug industry here (at least that is the information that comes through the media here).

We also have many incidence each year where students are assulted in school by rival gangs (usually Indo-vs-Viet).

We have had a an Indo-Canadian Journalist executed because of his speaking out agaist Indo-Canadian Gangs and the Air India Bombings.

[velvetpage]

I don't watch national news for stuff like that, so it's not surprising i didn't hear about it.

So there's more than one kind of gang problem going on in Canada these days.

[rogula]

Yup...

Personally I think they need to take a multpronged approach to solving it.

1) Long term investment in improving the quality of life for those in the lower income brakets.
2) Tougher sentances for violent crime
3) More policing and better border security
4) Community Courts that deal quicker and more directly with first time offenders to try and divert them from the path that leads to further violent crime.

[velvetpage]

I'd add one thing to that - city planning that puts low-income, middle-income and high-income neighbourhoods close together, so as to even out the density of population over a larger area. It's not gentrification, exactly - it's minimizing the ghetto effect. I've taught in neighbourhoods where that was done, and I've taught in neighbourhoods where it was attempted but failed. It makes a huge difference.

[allhatnocattle]

the crime rate drops with every additional year of education that someone has

Obviously you didn't invest in Bre-X. Enron comes to mind. And I'm thinking of a certain Hill in Ottawa that's a bit like a crime family for lawyers who don't like to practice the law much. Have you seenm the kinda shit undergrads pull? I have a real hard time believing in this correlation. I think there's some truth to it, but without manners, respect for others, and plain old decency you end up leading a horse to water thinking he's gonna take a drink.

[binro33]

I think that a better phrasing would be that violent crime drops with every additional year of education

[allhatnocattle]

Nah, education just gives criminals the smarts to delegate the job to their minions.

[harry_beast]

That sounds like trickle down crime-o-nomics.

Maybe we could encourage criminals to unionize. Then, when their benefits become too expensive, they would all get laid off and the crime would be outsourced to India or China.

[allhatnocattle]

I think you've got it the wrong way around. It's the victims that should unionize before they're forced to carry weapons for protection.

[harry_beast]

Well, on a more serious note, government is supposed to be exactly that: a union of like minded people who get together to set up ways to ensure their own protection. Theoretically, our own society eliminates the need to carry weapons, because armed soldiers guard against external threat and policemen protect against internal lawbreakers. United we stand.

If people feel that they are part of society, they understand and obey laws, they look out for each other and they cooperate with law enforcement officials. If people feel victimized or neglected by society, or alienated from it, then it's everyone for him/herself.

[allhatnocattle]

You wanna take away my right to be a victim? We've be given the right to all be stolen from equally and we intend to keep it that way.

Seriously, we have protection from external and internal threats, but we're loosing our right to protection from the authority's abuses. Courts are so backlogged that judges really try to avoid settling scores before a jury of our peers. MLA's and MP's can advocate for us but often they're busy with other duties. Elections are won by majorities rather then representatives. And now we're loosing our sidearms to the beauracracy. I understand the impending hopelessness.

[velvetpage]

Let me rephrase then. Statistically, violent crime drops dramatically with each additional year of education a person attains.

Even so, I think it's true overall that crime rates drop with additional education. It's also true that the types of crime likely to be committed shift away from violent crime.